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My Futile ‘Debate’ with a Liberal Professor of History

Well, if one could even call this a “debate”.

A conservative Facebook friend of mine yesterday had posted a status message regarding the latest health care legislation tragedy. Some liberal jumped to respond to it with the usual nonsense. I checked out his profile and saw that he has a degree in History and was a current “Adjunct Professor” at Oakland Community College. I stupidly thought that meant he could debate logic and facts on issues. Boy was I ever wrong. The following is our back-and-forth, wasted time in my life I shall never get back:

Friend’s Status Message: Prager: “The Left corrodes everything. The Left is toxic. The Left destroys. The Left is useless. But they think they’re wonderful. It is another religion… People don’t understand. The vast majority of people have been destroyed in the 20th century, enslaved, tortured, and murdered by Left-wing regimes. But it doesn’t mean anything to anybody. They’re never called that… The Left is never blamed for this.”

LIBERAL PROFESSOR: Utra-right wing = fascism and Nazism. Far-left socialism and marxism. Both have killed their fair share of people. Get it right.

FACEBOOK FRIEND: Get it right…? You might want to check what “Nazi” was shorthand for. Also, don’t forget the communists…

MICHAEL IN MI: Wonderful. Another professor of History calling NAZIs “right wing”. Brilliant.

LIBERAL PROFESSOR: Nazi were the definition of far right. The name does not define their policies. Many business leaders in the US were admiriers of Hitler and the Nazis (ie Henry Ford) In fact some (conservative) business leaders (ie Rene DuPont) were planning to overthrow FDR in 1933 and establish a Nazi regime. You don’t know that marxists are communists.

MICHAEL IN MI: I didn’t know that “far right” people are socialists. The NAZIs’ policies were socialism. No one on the Right endorses socialism. “Far right” is basically libertarian, which is small government. NAZIs were about big government control of industry. No one on the Right wants government control of industry.

So, again, NAZIs were not “far right”.

LIBERAL PROFESSOR: Really, then WHY are they so popular with the business leaders in the US in 1930s?

MICHAEL IN MI: The same reason the current crop of Communists in government are so popular with many business leaders today (ie, GE, Microsoft, Google, which all are HUGE supporters of the current crop of far left radical Democrats)… because some business leaders of the 1930s were NAZIs themselves. The common theme is consolidated control and power. They wanted it back in the 1930s and they want it again here in 2010. But government control is a NAZI/Communist ideology, not a conservative/libertarian ideology. Conservatives and libertarians want small government and as much free market as possible. NAZIs and Communists want the opposite… they want large government and as little free market and as much government control of industry as they can get.

LIBERAL PROFESSOR: Interesting arguement with one flaw, Communists and Nazis hated each other. Why were the Nazis rounding up the communists and putting in concentration camps, if they had so much in common? Where do you get your information from? Conservatives only want a government who supports them. Its only socialism when the government helps the people.

MICHAEL IN MI: Every government which has had socialism has not been to “help the people”, but to keep the people down. Socialism helps government control the people. It spreads the misery around, it does not help the people achieve or provide them opportunity to achieve.

And just because NAZIs did not like Communists does not mean they were opposites. I’m a conservative and I don’t necessarily like or agree with the policies put forth by libertarians. But that does not make a libertarian the opposite of a conservative. Socialism and Communism have much in common, similar to conservatism and libertarianism having much in common.

Socialism (NAZIs) and Communism are both about government control of industry. The only way they differ is in the magnitude of control.

The fact remains that government control of industry is not a conservative principle, it is a principle of Communist and Socialist ideology.

And conservatives want a government which gets out of our way and allows us the opportunity to succeed on our own. Conservatives want small government, with limited regulations. Conservatives believe in the free market to be more successful than government control. And history proves that free market systems work better than government-controlled systems. That’s why China has risen over the last couple decades as they have worked in more Capitalism into their Communist society.

LIBERAL PROFESSOR: That’s a lot of Glenn Beck propaganda.

MICHAEL IN MI: Okay, if you’re not going to actually address anything I stated, I’m done with you. You’re supposedly a History professor, yet when you’re challenged on something, the best rebuttal you have is to bring up Glenn Beck? Brilliant.

Take care. I pity anyone who expects to learn history from you at Oakland Community College.

LIBERAL PROFESSOR: Because I know his propaganda when I see it. How typical that you end it by insulting me. I teach my students to think for themselves. Something that you seem unable to do. That’s sad.

FACEBOOK FRIEND: PROFESSOR, how do you see Nazis as the “definition of far right”? I also am unclear how you make the argument that business=far right and some business leaders supported the Nazis, therefore Nazis=far right. Michael points out numerous examples of businesses supporting the far left today. How then do you account for that?

Socialism is “government helping the people”? Like the government helps the people in Cuba? China? Venezuela? As it helped the people in the Soviet Union? Come on. You’re not Sean Penn, for Pete’s sake.

LIBERAL PROFESSOR: Majority did. Site some examples of them supporting the left. What I said was if a govt helps the people that its called socialism. Helping businesses is deemed as good for everyone. Perhaps bussiness support who. Ever is in office because they help put them there. Don’t like the fact that your buddy got personal. How did he know I taught at occ?

MICHAEL IN MI: “Because I know his propaganda when I see it. How typical that you end it by insulting me. I teach my students to think for themselves. Something that you seem unable to do. That’s sad.”

Yeah, I’m gonna bet you don’t even watch Glenn Beck and have no idea about his “propaganda”. You just don’t have a response to any of the points I brought up, so instead you decide to throw out a worthless ad hominem, in order to avoid answering me. Then whine that I “insulted” you. Typical liberal. Get challenged, can’t respond, pull out the good ol’ “that’s just right-wing propaganda from FNC/Beck/Rush/etc” and then whine about insults.

What is sad is that I know how to defend my facts about history better than someone who actually teaches the subject. In case you missed the fact, I responded to all your comments with rebuttals, while you responded with blaming Glenn Beck.

MICHAEL IN MI: “How did he know I taught at occ?”

I took 5 seconds to click on your name and saw the info on your profile, that’s how. I was curious as to your background. I do that with everyone with whom I ‘debate’ on here to get an idea of the ideology I am facing. I check people’s ‘groups’ and ‘fan of’ pages to see if they are fans of say Barack Obama or Keith Olbermann or Rachel Maddow, etc. It gives me an idea of whether or not I should waste my time discussing politics with them.

“What I said was if a govt helps the people that its called socialism.”

Socialism is not “government helping the people”. Socialism actually has a definition, you don’t just get to define it yourself to suit your own purposes, professor. Socialism is about government control of industry and taking wealth from those who produce and spreading it around to those who do not produce. And, as the saying goes, socialism fails because eventually you run out of other people’s money. Socialism is not about “helping the people”, it is about making people dependent upon the government for their livelihood. It is about encouraging people to remain at their status in life and mooch off those of higher status. This then discourages people from working hard to achieve higher status, because they won’t get to keep the fruits of their labor, as, instead, the fruits of their labor are redistributed to those who are not working as hard as they are.

MICHAEL IN MI: “Site some examples of them supporting the left.”

I already did, professor. GE (and all its subsidiaries), Google, Microsoft all fund Democrats and left-wing issues and organizations.

LIBERAL PROFESSOR: There were no facts! Since I realized where all your information came from, you got very defensive. If you presented that as a paper in my class, it would have gotten a c at best. I’ve read beck and he’s full of shit. I read evey side of an issue, unlike you

MICHAEL IN MI: I didn’t get “defensive”, I got annoyed, because I was wrong about you. I assumed you were an intelligent person who could debate facts and logic, but turns out you’re just an ignorant jackass who can’t debate, so you just throw out stupid accusations. I stopped watching TV news in 2004, professor. I don’t watch Beck, nor Fox News, nor any other mass media outlet. I do my own research.

I’m sorry I wasted my time with you, professor, and sorry that I actually thought you had the intelligence to have an actual debate of ideology and ideas, instead of taking the cowardly liberal way out of a debate and smearing your opponent.

And you may read every side of an issue, but you obviously lack the capacity to actually UNDERSTAND every side of an issue. Reading does not = comprehension.

As I said before, I pity your students.

As you should know, from being a History professor, a proper rebuttal to presented ideas is to respond with “you said X, that is wrong, because of Y”. Unless you run your classes by allowing your students to respond to one another by saying “you’re wrong and it’s obvious you’re just spouting liberal propaganda from Keith Olbermann” and “no, YOU’RE wrong and it’s obvious you’re just spouting conservative propaganda from Rush Limbaugh” and “no, YOU’RE wrong and spouting liberal propaganda from Rachel Maddow”, etc etc ad naseum.

That is how you have ‘debated’ here, so I assume that’s also how you handle your classes. Which is why I said I pity your students, because if that is the kind of education they are getting, god help them.

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March 23, 2010 , 12:19PM - Posted by | Communism, Debating an Obama-Lover, Fascism, Liberalism, Public Education, Socialism

1 Comment

  1. Awesome debate. Professor, consider yourself SERVED.

    Best part…
    “….a proper rebuttal to presented ideas is to respond with “you said X, that is wrong, because of Y”. Unless you run your classes by allowing your students to respond to one another by saying “you’re wrong and it’s obvious you’re just spouting liberal propaganda from Keith Olbermann” and “no, YOU’RE wrong and it’s obvious you’re just spouting conservative propaganda from Rush Limbaugh” and “no, YOU’RE wrong and spouting liberal propaganda from Rachel Maddow”, etc etc ad naseum.”

    Comment by jennofthejungle | March 23, 2010 , 12:25PM


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