You want to know how we got into this mess? Here is a prime example of the ignorance of the types of people who are voting for Obama and the radical Democrats in charge of the current Socialist Communist Democrat Party. This is the kind of ignorance and historical revisionism that spreads when Communist/Socialist Capitalism-hating and America-hating hippies are in control of every single medium of information dissemination in this nation — mass media, grammar schools, high schools, universities, “entertainment” industry.
Thankfully, some of the rough men who stand on that wall to protect us from foreign enemies also get down off that wall to protect us from domestic enemies and give them a verbal smack down and history lesson once in a while.
[I will give this “Joe” schmuck guy credit though for the most creative reason for his ignorance of Jimmy Carter’s historically bad policies, summarized by one of the commenters: “I am going to use the Joe excuse for when I don’t know what I am talking about. My twentys… the lost years I spent most of the time fighting grizzly bears and scorpions, so I wasn’t too interested in news or politics.” heh]
March 22nd, 2010 at 12:21 pm
Well, conservatives are at a fork in the road. They can over react and go further off the deep end (religious-ideological wingnuts like Palin and other fringe types), or come back down to earth with someone who a) is not a christian fundamentalist, b) who is not a free market fundamentalist c) for whom logic and common sense trump ideology, d) who has one whit of empathy for people less fortunate, e) has good hair.
March 22nd, 2010 at 12:26 pm
We already had our Moses, however, his lessons and principles have been watered down by the republican party to the point none of them have any idea what his principles were. They stopped reviewing his message and that message was ignored by a bunch of self serving asshats that are still, today, more interested in winning elections than standing on principles and providing a clear choice between the two parties.
That man was Ronaldus Maximus aka Ronald Wilson Reagan
March 22nd, 2010 at 12:45 pm
Ronald Reagan – where it all started to go bad…
March 22nd, 2010 at 1:22 pm
Ronald Reagan = Last US president to put US national security above all else.
March 22nd, 2010 at 1:23 pm
Yeah, sure Joe. You weren’t even an itch in your daddy’s pants when Reagan was President. How do I know this? Because of several comments you have made and questions you haven’t answered in the past, that you should know the answer to if you were an adult when he was President. You have no clue what is good or bad. All you have are your socialist bullshit talking points that you keep spouting. Unlike you, I was there for the bad, which was before Reagan. Yeah, that trophy Prez you morons think was so great by the name of Jimmy Carter.
March 22nd, 2010 at 2:22 pm
“come back down to earth with someone who a) is not a christian fundamentalist, b) who is not a free market fundamentalist c) for whom logic and common sense trump ideology”.
As opposed to your wet dream prez, Joey, who is a) a communist fundamentalist b) has no idea what he’s doing, economically c) has no logic or common sense.
Joey, can you point out which Article in the Constitution demands “empathy”? Didn’t think so.
March 22nd, 2010 at 2:55 pm
Only on a site like this can someone be maligned for mentioning qualities like common sense, logic and empathy.
March 22nd, 2010 at 3:22 pm
Only on a site like this can someone be maligned for mentioning qualities like common sense, logic and empathy.
Oh, I’m not so sure about that… try here: http://www.democraticunderground.com a veritable clearinghouse for all of those wonderful attributes. True story.
Old Trooper Says:
March 22nd, 2010 at 4:28 pm
Joe; you wouldn’t know common sense if it slapped your melon. Also, the left has no interest in logic, only feelings. I know that when you morons get together to make your protest signs and have a group hug, you’re playing Bobby Vinton records. Empahty? What the fuck would you know about empathy? You haven’t lived long enough to have empathy for anything, other than the struggles of Spongebob. I don’t even think you know what the word means.
Have you ever noticed that conservatives start out saying “I think” and liberals start off with “I feel”?
March 22nd, 2010 at 4:33 pm
Painting with a broad brush, aren’t you? Age-wise, I suspect i am older than you, if it matters.
Old Trooper Says:
March 22nd, 2010 at 4:41 pm
Really Joe? Well then tell me; what 2 major events happened in 1979 and how did yo feel about them?
March 22nd, 2010 at 6:11 pm
Joey, still waiting for the article in the Constitution that demands, requires, or even mentions “empathy”. As to #18, Old Trooper and Claymore have slapped you around enough, I’m sure you’re even dizzier than normal about now. And, we’re all waiting for your pronouncement on 1979.
March 23rd, 2010 at 8:11 am
Ok, Joe, here’s a hint for ya… read a book called 444 days.
March 23rd, 2010 at 9:39 am
OK, I’m back. I do have a life outside of TAH y’know. 1979. Well, the Soviets invaded Afghanistan, right around Christmas I believe. If we knew then what we know now, we would have let them keep it. And somewhere in there, a very dark day for America, and something we’re still paying dearly for and will continue to pay dearly for, Ronald Reagan announced his candidacy for the presidency. And I didn’t even have to look it up.
March 23rd, 2010 at 9:53 am
Oh, and the reference to 444 days, without looking it up, is probably the kidnapping of US Embassy personnel in Iran.
March 23rd, 2010 at 10:34 am
Joe; there should have been no reason for you to “look it up” if you were an adult, or even in high school back then. So, why don’t we start over and you can tell me again how you are older than me?
March 23rd, 2010 at 10:37 am
Well, I was born in ‘50. You do the math….
March 23rd, 2010 at 11:20 am
I didn’t have to look it up and I was just four. Joe if you are sixty I am the prince of wales. You don’t act it. You don’t think for yourself. All of your arguments are based on emotion and not on facts.
I’ll give you one reason why Reagan should be remembered fondly. His actions led to the downfall of the Soviet Union. I remember growing up in the 80s. There were missle silos all over the area I grew up. I knew that if the war actually happened I would be dead.
March 23rd, 2010 at 11:40 am
Reagan made an admittedly great speech at the wall in the mid eighties. But many historians say the USSR was headed for collapse all on it’s own. Reagan took a huge gamble with the fate of the entire world when, in response to the deployment of SS 20’s in eastern Eurpoe, he deployed Pershing missles with a travel time to target of less than 5 minutes. Now we can look back with the benefit of hindsight and say it worked, but if it had gone a little differently we would not be here to talk about it. We dodged a bullet there. Gorbachev saw the writing on the wall and tried to bring the USSR in for a soft landing, with mixed success. The idol worship of Reagan’s foreign policy is misplaced. And as for the repurcussions of his Milton Friedman-inspired domestic policy, he sowed the seeds of the current global economic crisis, and the world may never recover from his wrong-headed economic policies.
Old Tanker Says:
March 23rd, 2010 at 11:47 am
…he sowed the seeds of the current global economic crisis, and the world may never recover from his wrong-headed economic policies…
so much for the benefit of hind sight… your blind in one eye and can’t see with the other.
March 23rd, 2010 at 11:59 am
LOL!!! Joe, yer killing me with all this boilerplate BS. Just stop, please, because I’m laughing too hard. Everything you just put down reads like something off a term paper at a liberal university political science class.
Do you honestly believe that tripe you just wrote? Or, would you believe the people in the former Soviet Union that have said repeatedly that the fact that Reagan stood up against the Soviets and they weren’t accustomed to being told no, since Carter was their bitch and gave in to whatever they wanted. Reagan upped the ante and called their bluff. I really enjoyed watching the dumbasses around the world start wetting themselves and calling Reagan a cowboy, blah, blah, blah, and insisting that he was going to lead us into WWIII and so on and so on. It didn’t happen and Reagan’s foreign policy was a triumph, no matter how you want to spin it. I supposed you think that Carter bending over all the time was a better approach?
I suppose you think Keynesian economics is far superior? Let me guess; your textbooks don’t cover the Keynesian approach that Carter had; right? If you are 60 years old, please tell me what the economy was like, from your perspective, in ‘78-’80? Show me how all the right moves by Carter worked. Tell me, old man, exactly what barometer was a visible sign of the great economy of Carter, other than the double digit inflation, double digit interest rates, double digit unemployment, etc.
Don’t look it up, you should be able to remember this all on your own. I know I do, but then again, I wasn’t in a dope fog.
March 23rd, 2010 at 12:15 pm
Gov’t spending skyrocketed during Reagan’s term, GOP rhetoric notwithstanding, OldTrooper. The S&L collapse of the ’80s (remember that?), just another case of privatizing the rewards, socializing of risk – the bankers gamble and win, they make the profit. The bankers gamble and lose, the taxpayer picks up the tab. Sound like a more recent fiasco, OldTimer, I mean OldTrooper? And his policies on deregulation, i.e., no regulation, lax regulation, turning a blind eye regulation, putting industry shills in charge of regulating their own industries (the fox regulating the henhouse), which Bush expanded on, have brought the country to ruin.
March 23rd, 2010 at 12:21 pm
And don’t forget, Carter had the aftermath of a little thing called the Arab Oil Embargo to deal with.
Old Tanker Says:
March 23rd, 2010 at 12:27 pm
As I recall Joe, Democrats ran the house and senate, continued passing those spending bills, and over rode Reagans veto to do it… you remember Ted Kennedy getting a veto override to get money for the Big Dig don’t you?
March 23rd, 2010 at 12:28 pm
Don’t know much about Carter’s economic policies except to say at least they didn’t continue wreaking global havoc 30 years after his presidency.
March 23rd, 2010 at 12:37 pm
There you go, AGAIN, saying some stupid shit that leads me to believe that you aren’t as old as you claim. You won’t answer the question I posed to you, instead you go into a textbook diatribe against Reagan, then you answer with “Don’t know much about Carter’s economic policies”. Don’t know? Don’t know???? What the fuck is that?? You would have been in your late 20’s at the time and you don’t know??? Bullshit. You lost your cloak, boy. Go back to your latte swilling dumbass friends and see if you can get your prof to give you a hint at what the hell we’re talking about.
Old Tanker called you out on who was in the majority in congress, I called you out on Carter and you have no fucking clue, except to spit and sputter shit out of a text book.
I’m through with your bullshit.
Old Tanker Says:
March 23rd, 2010 at 12:47 pm
Joe, Carter started the whole Community Reinvestment Act which is THE major reason for the financial woes we are now in. It was loans going to people who couldn’t pay them back that created a bigger loan market, that made loans cheaper, that made more people get them, that artificially ballooned housing prices… etc… Yes, bankers new it was bad paper but thought they had the backing of Fanny and Freddy. They were given the wink an nod after Clinton expanded CRA even with Franklyn Raines telling them this very thing would happen. Bankers bundled bad paper with good in an effort to offset the risk they were forced to take with looming lawsuits from community organizers at ACORN… look how things turned out for ACORN!
Carter’s economic legacy 30 years on…
March 23rd, 2010 at 12:52 pm
In my twenties (the lost years) I spent a lot of time in the mountains and deserts away from society, didn’t follow politics much. So when I say I don’t know, I mean just that – I don’t know.
Unlike you, I don’t know everything.
March 23rd, 2010 at 1:01 pm
At long last Joe stumbles upon the truth.
March 23rd, 2010 at 1:11 pm
Thank you Trooper and Tanker you saved me some time. I am going to use the Joe excuse for when I don’t know what I am talking about. My twentys… the lost years I spent most of the time fighting grizzly bears and scorpions so I wasn’t too interested in news or politics.
March 23rd, 2010 at 1:22 pm
So, Joe, you actually did pull a Moses and wander through the desert?
With that said; how can you then jump all over Reagan as the beginning of the end and carry on with your arrogant attitude and have no clue about what was happening before Reagan. You have nothing to compare it to. Life didn’t take the same sabatical that you did between Ford and Reagan. We endured Keynesian economics, pussified foreign policy that made us weaker, not stronger, double digit inflation, interest rates, and unemployment. Not to mention ending our control of the Panama Canal (which the Chicoms now control), gas lines (yes, we had those, post Arab Oil Embargo), higher taxes, that wonderful new term stagflation, disco (don’t get me started), and another new term “the misery index”. All negatives, all on Carter’s watch and most of it could have been dealt with quicker had Carter not gone the Keynes route.
Enter Reagan, who actually didn’t blame the previous administration for everything, but set to putting Americans back to work. Did he spend some money? Yes he did, but nothing on the scale of today. Did he cut taxes and control spending? Yep, he sure did, because he knew that if you were going to cut taxes, you had to cut spending, also. A deficit created from cutting taxes is far better than a deficit created from increasing spending, because it means more private sector money is put to work in the private sector, not in Washington. Within his first term, people were getting back to work, interest rates were coming down, businesses were investing again. De-regulation… Airlines weren’t required by law to service highly unprofitable routes anymore, so the airlines could expand their business where it would do the most good and in the process, hire a few people, also. That’s how you create jobs, not by taxing the crap out of business and punishing those that make the money. JFK (you remember him, you were in school when he was President) even cut taxes, because he knew that in order to create jobs, you first have to let the people keep more of their money. I know that’s a hard concept for you to understand, but the money that people make is theirs, not the government’s. We give the government a portion to do what the Constitution allows them to do (the enumerated powers), but the “progressives” think that all money belongs to the government and they allow us to keep some.
Thus endeth the lesson on economics.
March 23rd, 2010 at 3:16 pm
The economy is a complex adaptive system, with a billion inuts and a billion outputs, not an all-or-nothing proposition as you would have us believe. It’s more complex than, “the government takes all the money” or “the government takes none of the money”. It’s a matter of balance. John Wayne fans forget that to earn his millions even he had to drive on gov’t funded roads, cross gov’t funded bridges, fly to his next movie set under the guidance of the gov’t funded FAA, and take his meds tested and scrutinized by the gov’t funded FDA. Our current system is totally skewed for the benefit of corporations and the top 5%, and in serious need of rebalancing, or redistribution of wealth (which has been going on since the first tax), as you might call it. A complex adaptive system is not a healthy system if most of its “agents” (i.e., citizens) are in dire financial straights. Do I want the gov’t to take al our money? No. Does the system need some serious tweaking to avoid further collapse. You betcha!
March 23rd, 2010 at 3:56 pm
Joe just used the phrase, “You betcha.” I’m guessing Sarah Palin is pulling a Jedi mind fuck on his ass right about now.
Sleep well, Joe. Sleep well.
Oh, and I wasn’t born in the “top 5 percent”, but I’m pretty close to that point now. How, you ask? How about the concept of working your ass off for what you want, rather than pissing and moaning about it? Ever tried that little gem?
March 23rd, 2010 at 4:29 pm
Yeah, Sparky, 5 days a week. Myself, I’m doing OK, but there are a lot of people who aren’t.
March 23rd, 2010 at 5:15 pm
My point exactly, Joe –- you do the minimum required and bitch when your Skittle-shitting ponies don’t fall out of the fucking sky for you.
March 24, 2010 , 12:19AM Posted by Michael in MI | American History, Debating an Obama-Lover, Democrats, Economy, Liberalism, Socialism | Comments Off on Joe Schmuck American Blames… Ronald Reagan (!?!) for Current Bad Economy
Well, if one could even call this a “debate”.
A conservative Facebook friend of mine yesterday had posted a status message regarding the latest health care legislation tragedy. Some liberal jumped to respond to it with the usual nonsense. I checked out his profile and saw that he has a degree in History and was a current “Adjunct Professor” at Oakland Community College. I stupidly thought that meant he could debate logic and facts on issues. Boy was I ever wrong. The following is our back-and-forth, wasted time in my life I shall never get back:
Friend’s Status Message: Prager: “The Left corrodes everything. The Left is toxic. The Left destroys. The Left is useless. But they think they’re wonderful. It is another religion… People don’t understand. The vast majority of people have been destroyed in the 20th century, enslaved, tortured, and murdered by Left-wing regimes. But it doesn’t mean anything to anybody. They’re never called that… The Left is never blamed for this.”
LIBERAL PROFESSOR: Utra-right wing = fascism and Nazism. Far-left socialism and marxism. Both have killed their fair share of people. Get it right.
FACEBOOK FRIEND: Get it right…? You might want to check what “Nazi” was shorthand for. Also, don’t forget the communists…
MICHAEL IN MI: Wonderful. Another professor of History calling NAZIs “right wing”. Brilliant.
LIBERAL PROFESSOR: Nazi were the definition of far right. The name does not define their policies. Many business leaders in the US were admiriers of Hitler and the Nazis (ie Henry Ford) In fact some (conservative) business leaders (ie Rene DuPont) were planning to overthrow FDR in 1933 and establish a Nazi regime. You don’t know that marxists are communists.
MICHAEL IN MI: I didn’t know that “far right” people are socialists. The NAZIs’ policies were socialism. No one on the Right endorses socialism. “Far right” is basically libertarian, which is small government. NAZIs were about big government control of industry. No one on the Right wants government control of industry.
So, again, NAZIs were not “far right”.
LIBERAL PROFESSOR: Really, then WHY are they so popular with the business leaders in the US in 1930s?
MICHAEL IN MI: The same reason the current crop of Communists in government are so popular with many business leaders today (ie, GE, Microsoft, Google, which all are HUGE supporters of the current crop of far left radical Democrats)… because some business leaders of the 1930s were NAZIs themselves. The common theme is consolidated control and power. They wanted it back in the 1930s and they want it again here in 2010. But government control is a NAZI/Communist ideology, not a conservative/libertarian ideology. Conservatives and libertarians want small government and as much free market as possible. NAZIs and Communists want the opposite… they want large government and as little free market and as much government control of industry as they can get.
LIBERAL PROFESSOR: Interesting arguement with one flaw, Communists and Nazis hated each other. Why were the Nazis rounding up the communists and putting in concentration camps, if they had so much in common? Where do you get your information from? Conservatives only want a government who supports them. Its only socialism when the government helps the people.
MICHAEL IN MI: Every government which has had socialism has not been to “help the people”, but to keep the people down. Socialism helps government control the people. It spreads the misery around, it does not help the people achieve or provide them opportunity to achieve.
And just because NAZIs did not like Communists does not mean they were opposites. I’m a conservative and I don’t necessarily like or agree with the policies put forth by libertarians. But that does not make a libertarian the opposite of a conservative. Socialism and Communism have much in common, similar to conservatism and libertarianism having much in common.
Socialism (NAZIs) and Communism are both about government control of industry. The only way they differ is in the magnitude of control.
The fact remains that government control of industry is not a conservative principle, it is a principle of Communist and Socialist ideology.
And conservatives want a government which gets out of our way and allows us the opportunity to succeed on our own. Conservatives want small government, with limited regulations. Conservatives believe in the free market to be more successful than government control. And history proves that free market systems work better than government-controlled systems. That’s why China has risen over the last couple decades as they have worked in more Capitalism into their Communist society.
LIBERAL PROFESSOR: That’s a lot of Glenn Beck propaganda.
MICHAEL IN MI: Okay, if you’re not going to actually address anything I stated, I’m done with you. You’re supposedly a History professor, yet when you’re challenged on something, the best rebuttal you have is to bring up Glenn Beck? Brilliant.
Take care. I pity anyone who expects to learn history from you at Oakland Community College.
LIBERAL PROFESSOR: Because I know his propaganda when I see it. How typical that you end it by insulting me. I teach my students to think for themselves. Something that you seem unable to do. That’s sad.
FACEBOOK FRIEND: PROFESSOR, how do you see Nazis as the “definition of far right”? I also am unclear how you make the argument that business=far right and some business leaders supported the Nazis, therefore Nazis=far right. Michael points out numerous examples of businesses supporting the far left today. How then do you account for that?
Socialism is “government helping the people”? Like the government helps the people in Cuba? China? Venezuela? As it helped the people in the Soviet Union? Come on. You’re not Sean Penn, for Pete’s sake.
LIBERAL PROFESSOR: Majority did. Site some examples of them supporting the left. What I said was if a govt helps the people that its called socialism. Helping businesses is deemed as good for everyone. Perhaps bussiness support who. Ever is in office because they help put them there. Don’t like the fact that your buddy got personal. How did he know I taught at occ?
MICHAEL IN MI: “Because I know his propaganda when I see it. How typical that you end it by insulting me. I teach my students to think for themselves. Something that you seem unable to do. That’s sad.”
Yeah, I’m gonna bet you don’t even watch Glenn Beck and have no idea about his “propaganda”. You just don’t have a response to any of the points I brought up, so instead you decide to throw out a worthless ad hominem, in order to avoid answering me. Then whine that I “insulted” you. Typical liberal. Get challenged, can’t respond, pull out the good ol’ “that’s just right-wing propaganda from FNC/Beck/Rush/etc” and then whine about insults.
What is sad is that I know how to defend my facts about history better than someone who actually teaches the subject. In case you missed the fact, I responded to all your comments with rebuttals, while you responded with blaming Glenn Beck.
MICHAEL IN MI: “How did he know I taught at occ?”
I took 5 seconds to click on your name and saw the info on your profile, that’s how. I was curious as to your background. I do that with everyone with whom I ‘debate’ on here to get an idea of the ideology I am facing. I check people’s ‘groups’ and ‘fan of’ pages to see if they are fans of say Barack Obama or Keith Olbermann or Rachel Maddow, etc. It gives me an idea of whether or not I should waste my time discussing politics with them.
“What I said was if a govt helps the people that its called socialism.”
Socialism is not “government helping the people”. Socialism actually has a definition, you don’t just get to define it yourself to suit your own purposes, professor. Socialism is about government control of industry and taking wealth from those who produce and spreading it around to those who do not produce. And, as the saying goes, socialism fails because eventually you run out of other people’s money. Socialism is not about “helping the people”, it is about making people dependent upon the government for their livelihood. It is about encouraging people to remain at their status in life and mooch off those of higher status. This then discourages people from working hard to achieve higher status, because they won’t get to keep the fruits of their labor, as, instead, the fruits of their labor are redistributed to those who are not working as hard as they are.
MICHAEL IN MI: “Site some examples of them supporting the left.”
I already did, professor. GE (and all its subsidiaries), Google, Microsoft all fund Democrats and left-wing issues and organizations.
LIBERAL PROFESSOR: There were no facts! Since I realized where all your information came from, you got very defensive. If you presented that as a paper in my class, it would have gotten a c at best. I’ve read beck and he’s full of shit. I read evey side of an issue, unlike you
MICHAEL IN MI: I didn’t get “defensive”, I got annoyed, because I was wrong about you. I assumed you were an intelligent person who could debate facts and logic, but turns out you’re just an ignorant jackass who can’t debate, so you just throw out stupid accusations. I stopped watching TV news in 2004, professor. I don’t watch Beck, nor Fox News, nor any other mass media outlet. I do my own research.
I’m sorry I wasted my time with you, professor, and sorry that I actually thought you had the intelligence to have an actual debate of ideology and ideas, instead of taking the cowardly liberal way out of a debate and smearing your opponent.
And you may read every side of an issue, but you obviously lack the capacity to actually UNDERSTAND every side of an issue. Reading does not = comprehension.
As I said before, I pity your students.
As you should know, from being a History professor, a proper rebuttal to presented ideas is to respond with “you said X, that is wrong, because of Y”. Unless you run your classes by allowing your students to respond to one another by saying “you’re wrong and it’s obvious you’re just spouting liberal propaganda from Keith Olbermann” and “no, YOU’RE wrong and it’s obvious you’re just spouting conservative propaganda from Rush Limbaugh” and “no, YOU’RE wrong and spouting liberal propaganda from Rachel Maddow”, etc etc ad naseum.
That is how you have ‘debated’ here, so I assume that’s also how you handle your classes. Which is why I said I pity your students, because if that is the kind of education they are getting, god help them.
Here I learned ‘el quicko’ that it was going to be a futile effort to reason with the Obama-lover as she considered Michael Moore to be a genius and credible. That’s always a sign one is dealing with a feeble, ignorant mind.
This comment thread was in response to an article posted by “AMERICAN KH” about the economy in Michigan specifically and the nation in general.
Also, take note that she will take Michael Moore’s word for the fact that Hillary Clinton and George W Bush took money from lobbyists, but in another “debate”, she was CERTAIN Obama never took — or would take — money from lobbyists. Idiot.
AMERICAN MD: im wondering how long the Obamabots will use Bush as their scapegoat… 7 months in, and its still Bush/Cheneys fault lol
MICHAEL IN MI: “Obama is willing to be held accountable for the national economy”
Not the last time I checked. He has been passing the buck to “we inherited this mess” = “Bush’s fault” for the past 6 months. He was elected to fix the ‘mess’, yet (1) does nothing but make it worse and (2) keeps blaming even his wrongheaded crap on Bush. No one else in the country could get away with being hired for a job and 6 months into it, giving excuses that their lack of performance is based on the previous employee.
That said, this is being completely unfair to Jenny from the Block. Wasn’t in just 2006 where she said “and in FIVE years… you’ll be blown away”.
So, come on now, AMERICAN KH, you have to allow her the time for her ingenius plan of taxing us back to prosperity to work… which apparently will be in 2011…
OBAMA-LOVING PARROT: Just something for you to think about Michael. Three men who I really think are good wealthy people who got their money on their own without rippn off the middle class: and deserve every penny of the money they made with their genious minds.
1. Tom Monaghan
2. Bill Gates
3. Michael Moore:)
OBAMA-LOVING PARROT: And yes, Obama did say he was held accountable for the national economy. He accepted this title and is expected to help us get out of the mess. He does understand this. At this time, there are 3 Republicans giving him a hard time about the health care. He is trying to decide whether to push it thru with just a Democrat vote only or wait as he does not want to create animosity in Congress.:) Just an update.
AMERICAN KH: PARROT, that’s another lie. Michael Moore got his money trading in stoking the flames of HATRED and class envy and with every salacious lie he feeds to children who should be rightly PROUD of this country, he puts another $ in his bank acct. Even worse, the evil falsehoods he spews ENDANGERS our brave men and women fighting for your right to ignore reality and promote socialism which will destroy this country from the inside just like Khrushchev predicted.
AMERICAN KH: Have you ever READ up on Khrushchev’s statements?
OBAMA-LOVING PARROT: Don’t know why you are “LMAO” I was just giving an update!) nothing more and nothing less.
OBAMA-LOVING PARROT: I don’t know Kelly but there are facts out there of what Michael Moore does with much of the money he makes.
OBAMA-LOVING PARROT: And the stuff he said about Hillary Clinton taking money from the Lobbyists I think. It is backed up. Along with George Bush taking money. You don’t think that these people were bribed when passing laws? I am not talking bad about them but I do believe this.
AMERICAN AR: PARROT, are you trying to get a rise out of people?
OBAMA-LOVING PARROT: LoL, no Andy, I just state what I believe in:0) But they don’t agree so o well. Not in the area of Politics anyway. I am getting tired tho. So, may stay off for awhile.:)
AMERICAN AR: PARROT, it appears as though you do your “research” on MSNBC or the like.
OBAMA-LOVING PARROT: No, I do not do my research not from MSNBC or the like. I do read a lot but that is not where I get it either. I like people. All kinds of people. And getting to know people in their situations and also my career helps to see what is going on in addition to reading and following up. I have friends from all income levels all types of jobs. And I see many people’s problems on a daily basis from my own job. So, the knowledge that i present does not come from statistical facts, although I do look at those but it comes from real lives of people.
AMERICAN AR: PARROT, from what you said, I can only hope you listen and learn from Kelly Harrigan.
OBAMA-LOVING PARROT: That’s your opinion. But there are many people with the same beliefs that I have and I believe in humanity for all man-kind. You should read the Pope’s views on Liberalism
AMERICAN AR: PARROT, read the Communist Manifesto.
OBAMA-LOVING PARROT: And you watch Michael Moore:)
AMERICAN AR: I have and he is an America hating idiot. Would prefer he live in Cuba!
OBAMA-LOVING PARROT: Mayb that’s where I will go, nice adventure!
AMERICAN BJH: As much as I like what Pecker Hoekstra had to say… you know, I just can’t get passed the fact that he would target individuals from his seat in the U.S. Congress which taxes those in a contract with a private corporation a 90% tax on their contracted wages. The vote to do that makes me think he would try that on someone else here in Michigan if (God Almight forbid he is elected Gov.). That kinda reminds me of something that happens in a oligarchy. Where the elite makes laws infringing on the Liberty this Country was founded on, not only is Hoekstra not suitable for Gov., he is a bully and a populist player. Enough name calling… IMPEACH GRANHOLM NOW.
OBAMA-LOVING PARROT: You have to admit, Michael Moore is hilarious. He bashes the Liberals too, btw!
MICHAEL IN MI: I don’t consider propaganda to be “hilarious”. I consider it dangerous, since he feeds off the ignorance of people to push an agenda. He smeared GM, smeared the issue of the 9/11 terrorist attacks and completely smeared the healthcare issue with his ridiculous ‘movie’ “Sicko”. He completely misrepresents every issue based on taking things out of context and presenting them as factual to fool the ignorant masses.
That is not “hilarious”, that is dangerous, especially when lots of ignorant people actually believe his lies and smears and form opinions based off of them.
OBAMA-LOVING PARROT: Actually, he smeared the people who ran GM. Not GM, Itself.
AMERICAN KH: You’re right, Michael. Propaganda is designed to make one laugh while swallowing arsenic… and Polly is laughing. She laughed to the polls while the left demonized Bush who kept us safe, while refusing to see O for who he is… a bird of a dangerous feather with Wright, Ayres, Alinsky, ACORN, etc. She is laughing now as she sees “those rich fat cat CEO’S” (who, btw, voted for OBAMA) watch their money get seized by a Marxist Robin Hood-in-Chief and “redistributed” to those poor people who have been “wronged by evil capitalists.” And she’ll laugh while O tears down our historically American, world class systems and puts in their place a socialism which shackles a people and kills a spirit or achievement. But then she won’t laugh bc she will realize the system built on a new “compassion” really isn’t compassionate… it’s ensnaring, ever more power hungry, and elitist… she’s understand that making everyone suffer equally will leave no one in a position to pull anyone up.
AMERICAN AR: AMERICAN KH, call her a STATIST. Statists support far less individual liberty than any other political ideology. Statists tend to distrust the free market, advocate centralized planning of the economy (including high taxes, strict regulation of business, and even government ownership or control of major industries), oppose “alternative” lifestyles that go against the beliefs of a majority of citizens, and downplay the importance of civil liberties. In short, statists consistently doubt that economic liberty and individual freedom are necessary, practical, or workable in today’s world. To think there is so many liberal-democrats that were bamboozled into voting for someone that is advocating less individual liberty for the collective. Shame, it has come down to voting to block the other candidates instead of the candidates that you like the most. Hollywood Squares… AkaObama for the block, Please. – True of False. AkaObama = Liberal… eeehnnt time up. False.
This actually should have been Part I, since I had this “debate” first back on July 26th, but no matter. This is just yet another prime example of what I talked about in this post about dealing with people who are ignorant and utterly stupid. Here’s the money quote from this “debate”:
OBAMA-LOVING PARROT: I choose to wait and see what happens. I am not going to condemn Barack Obama. As of far he has been a far more honest President than many and I happen to have my own views. I have a right to want to support him and I am not arguing anymore.
Got that? As of July 26th, 2009, after a campaign of doing nothing but lying, and after 6 months in the office of the Presidency doing nothing but lying, this Obama-lover STILL considers Obama “a far more honest President than many”.
I just have no idea how to combat this utter ignorance and mind-blowing stupidity.
JULY 26, 2009
Is Obama overexposed?
Yes, the President of the United States has become omnipresent on the tube, most recently talking about health-care reform, the deficit and race in his address to the nation on Wednesday night. The hour-long broadcast was his fourth prime-time presidential press conference.
All day, all-Obama, every channel… enough already.
OBAMA-LOVING PARROT: Well? he is informing us on what he wants to happen. And he wants the heatlhcare to be passed. So, therefore, he will show himself on tv 24-7 until people feel comfortable:)
MICHAEL IN MI: The more he goes on TV, the more he exposes himself as the communist, racist putz that he is and the more his poll numbers go down. So I hope his handlers keep putting him out there to keep making a fool of himself.
OBAMA-LOVING PARROT: That is your opinion, MICHAEL IN MI. My opinion is that he is an honest person working for the American People and other than facebook I have not heard a bad thing about him. He walked into a literal mess. You know it. Man, can’t people just respect someone who is the President of the United States. They cannot believe that the underdog made it, that’s all it is. Not only here but at work, in personal life etc. There are people that rise to the top that others think would never be anything. And than when they do they have hatred and jealousy.
MICHAEL IN MI: I judge a person by the company he keeps, OBAMA-LOVING PARROT. Thus, my opinion is based on his associates, his background and his entire political career. If you choose to ignore such things, that is your prerogative.
OBAMA-LOVING PARROT: He is a well rounded person who keeps company with all sorts of people. He doesn’t have a particular “type of person” he talks to. Just because you dislike a couple people he talks to doesn’t mean he associates with all of the same types of people.
AMERICAN JS: If you haven’t heard a bad thing about Obama, then you must not read the news. Or you pick and choose. Even the biggest papers out there like the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times run articles that are critical of his proposals. If you only get your news from Katie Couric, you’re missing out on a lot of things.
AMERICAN JF: I asked myself that OBAMA-LOVING PARROT when George Bush was President or about the former governor of Alaska, Sarah Palin, can’t people just respect them? I am sure you were as outraged by how “certain people” and members of the press disrepected them also Right?
OBAMA-LOVING PARROT: I hear lots of bad things about him. But I choose to look at the overall picture and do my own research. So, therefore, I make my own conclusions which tell me he is a typical democrat, thinks like a typical democrat and is doing what he believes in. He is working for the best interest of the American People. And his beliefs happen to be mine.
MICHAEL IN MI: I see. Care to share some examples of these “all sorts of people” he talks to? “A couple people he talks to”. That’s rich. A spiritual mentor of 2 decades who is an America-hating racist. A political ally who started his political career and hired him to run the Chicago Annenberg Challenge who is an America-hating Communist unaplogetic domestic terrorist who attempted to mass murder American military members and their families. Tony Rezko who gave him some nice land deals in Chicago. Frank Marshall Davis, the Communist, who mentored him as a boy. And now we hear of his good buddy Skip Gates who is a race-baiting professor, with whom Obama sides without knowing the facts and smears cops as racist. Not surprising, considering he spent 20 years at a racist, America-hating Black Liberation Theology Church.
All of which you classify as “a couple people he talks to”.
I haven’t even gotten into his Science Czar who is for forced abortions and euthanasia. Or…
MICHAEL IN MI: …his racist Wise Latina US Supreme Court pick. Or his Administration choices who cheat on their taxes and can’t figure out how to work Turbo Tax. Or his broken promise to keep out lobbyists. Or his firing of an Inspector General to help one of his buddies in California.
I could go on and on. But I suspect you don’t care about any of these actual details. You simply want to pontificate about him being “well rounded” (based on no evidence) and an “underdog” (which is nonsense as he has been a man of privilege his entire career, from schooling to university to his time in Chicago and his time in the IL State Legislature. Everywhere he has gone, he has gotten perks and setting him up for success, not to mention a sycophantic press which refuses to challenge him on anything and simply serves as his propaganda outlet for his socialist, economy-destroying policies).
Well, that’s fine. As you said, we have our opinions. I now know yours.
OBAMA-LOVING PARROT: First of all, that “racist Wise Latina US Supreme Court pick” also worked under the Bush Administration. She is noone new. She also worked under the Clinton Administration. LMAO. As for his career, he has not been given perks. He has worked hard. He followed in the path that was meant for him to follow and became accomplished by traveling these paths. When he worked for Community Organizing, I am sure he was not thinking “O yeh I am gonna do this cuz it will make me President one day.” No, he did it cuz it was something he believed in and it just so happened that everything that he believed him led him on the path to the President of the United States.
OBAMA-LOVING PARROT: And also, look up Sotomoyer and find out what she did for Bush, you may be surprised. O, but it’s okay, she was okay than.
AMERICAN KH: OBAMA-LOVING PARROT… it’s NOT about hatred, jealousy, or underdogs. Where is that coming from? Michael’s not some sort of elitist… nor am I. It’s not some crazed Republican take on things… there are documented & substantiated FACTS which can be evaluated or ignored & rationalized away. It’s about the man’s policies (and associations) which, when honestly & critically evaluated, match up with those of Marxists/statists. Don’t take MY word for it, research it for yourself. Knowledge is power. You say you have & that he is a “typical Democrat.” That suggests whatever research you did was biased. Respectfully, he is not a “typical Democrat” or he wouldn’t be having such a hard time w/ his own side on issues including health care AND Cap & Tax. He may “talk” to a lot of ppl, but those in his innermost circle are RADICAL MARXISTS.
If you embrace the policy positions of socialism, that is up to you. As they say, we are each entitled to our opinions, but we are not entitled to our own set of facts.
OBAMA-LOVING PARROT: AMERICAN KH, I am not saying that Michael is an elitist and maybe I was too hard on him but Hilary Clinton had the same problem with the healthcare that Obama is having and at this time there are some democrats that are worried about public support so they are not agreeing. As for the jealousy, hatred and underdog thing I didn’t exactly say that Michael himself was that person, but there are many people who make the most ignorant comments which I than conclude to that. It wasn’t Michael’s comment. It has been other one’s today. And Michael, btw I am sorry if I was too harsh…. I am gonna just lay low until I get in a better mood.:)
OBAMA-LOVING PARROT: Actually, Michael, I just reread my comments and I really was harsh. I don’t know you and maybe I was trying to be mean to get my point of view across and to make you feel bad. Which is what people have done to me before on facebook. Never, and you certainly didn’t either. And I am sorry cuz I shouldn’t have come across like that:)
AMERICAN CL: I’m not aware of any organization called ‘Community Organizing’, much less one that Obama worked for… I’m also unaware of any actual accomplishment/activity Barack Obama performed to increase the ‘organization’ of his ‘community’. I have yet to have anyone tell me what he actually DID. (Which may be because the answer is somewhere in the ballpark of ‘not a damn thing’.)
OBAMA-LOVING PARROT: He was a Community Organizer with very low pay in Chicago. Do a search on the internet or look it up in books and you will see. He talks about his life as a Community Organizer in his book “memoirs of my father”. Also, the Republicans were making fun of him being a Community Organizer when he was running his campaign. It was a big joke to them that a Community Organizer would be running for President of the United States.
OBAMA-LOVING PARROT: And that’s what I meant by underdog.:) Also, him coming from a middle class family with no Politicians that I know of anyway in this family. His family was middle class. He only was able to go to the school due to getting a scholarship. And he stayed behind when his mother left so that he could finish school there. His upbringing was not the typical family life of a Politician either. It’s kinda funny tho, that the Politicians that are Democrat sometimes did not have the typical family life that Republicans say should be. Mayb they may understand people’s circumstances???:)
AMERICAN KH: “Community organizer” in Chicago translates into “political first rung cred”… it’s not as altruistic as it sounds… although that is how they couch it. That’s why some on the right raz him for it… it’s a position designed to achieve political ends, and if ppl manage to do some good in the process that’s a plus. It’s transparent to those who follow the money and know politics from the inside. Right now in our local papers you can find comm org jobs. The left has money from behind the scenes rich players such as Soros and Stryker and they need the ppl on the streets to organize like the unions do in the shops to push the players’ agendas. So, is the ivy league lawyer raised in pricey Hawaii and abroad actually an “underdog”? Not really, though I see where you’d see it that way. Some ppl think that just bc of his race or bc his mom raised him (with his grandparents). Most of those are on the left… go figure. LOTS of ppl are middle class with no politicians in their families.
AMERICAN KH: LOTS of ppl are raised by one parents due to death or divorce, etc. LOTS go to school on scholarships. On the flip side, LOTS of Republicans also don’t have the “typical” family life, despite your suggestion above to the contrary. Again, you suggest that somehow Dems understand ppl better. I have addressed that ridiculousness enough times and don’t feel the need to do so again this evening. It’s insulting and factually incorrect. Continuing to say it won’t make it any less incorrect. The assertions you made don’t hold up when you read them back and think. I don’t know what it is about him, but it seems many on the left simply view him as more than the sum of his parts and project some internal beliefs onto his situation and person. It’s a rather interesting, if irksome, phenomenon.
MICHAEL IN MI: AMERICAN KH — The other thing about the whole “community organizer” background is that, in addition to not being anywhere near a qualification for executive office, he was a complete failure as a community organizer. He accomplished nothing as a community organizer and he accomplished nothing during his time on the Chicago Annenberg Challenge trying to indoctrinate schools in Chicago with left-wing radicalism of his buddy Billy Ayers, whose money he was using to fund the CAC activities.
I have a lot of things on my resume about my past experience in my working career. When I go to an interview, I can’t simply rattle off my past job titles, hiring managers expect me to expand on my experiences and explain my successes. They then call any references I provide and ask them to verify if what I stated about my time there is true.
Obama, on the other hand, just rattles off that he worked as a community organizer and then expects that to be enough to qualify him. Nevermind that he has ZERO…
MICHAEL IN MI: …accomplishments during his time as a community organizer, did nothing to help anyone as a State Legislator (except give out big $$$ grants to his wife’s hospital, where his wife also got a huge salary for pretty much doing nothing, except shuffling off people to other hospitals so her hospital’s stats for treating people looked good), he did nothing but vote “Present” (well, except on the Born Alive Infants Act where he adamantly stood up for the right to murder babies and let them die if they survive the abortion) while he was in the State Legislature and had Emil Jones attach his name to bills which were authored by other Democrats, because Emil Jones wanted to make Obama President.
In his entire career, he has absolutely ZERO accomplishments. Oh sure, he wrote two biographies, one of which was based off the rantings of his racist religious mentor of 2 decades and the other which was ghost written by his terrorist buddy Billy Ayers. Regardless of that, I didn’t know that…
MICHAEL IN MI: …writing 2 autobiographies was now a good qualification for the Presidency. Who knew! 🙂
The fact is, this guy is the most radical left-wing politician we have had in our recent history in America. And he lies about it, the mass media covers up his radical left-wing past and when the mask slips and Obama reveals himself (Billy Ayers, Rev Wright, Henry Gates, “typical white person”, “clinging to guns and Bible”, etc) his cult followers STILL give him a complete pass, thinking “oh no, he couldn’t possibly be a radical left wing racist, no no no. He’s just swell! He talks about Hope and Change and Yes We Can and he’s articulate (when he’s reading a teleprompter, otherwise it’s uh, umm, uh, 57 States, speak Austrian, um uh).
The problem is our populace is so dumbed down and has no idea about how things work (businesses, taxes, economy, healthcare) that they fall for ignorant, empty slogans about each topic.
AMERICAN CL: Definitely couldn’t have said it better myself… AMEN.
(Notice we still have no answer to what Obama actually DID…? Not that I’m surprised…)
MICHAEL IN MI: Oh and there’s also his recent gaffe where he accused all doctors of doing unnecessary tests and recommending unnecessary surgeries solely for money, instead of the best interests of their patients. Topped it off with saying they take tonsils out of kids for money.
This dope has not a damn clue what he is talking about, but he just likes to stoke hatred about whatever group he deems will help him achieve his power. It’s pathetic. Even more pathetic that people give him a pass on this obvious radicalism.
AMERICAN CL: Well, if you listen to any liberal: it’s all about the “victims”. Victims who are not responsible for any aspect of their lives or the outcomes of their decisions. This is how Democrats win elections.
Supposed victims + “Poor, poor you – here let us help you by giving you other people’s money/making a government program for that” + uninformed general populace = Democrat victory
Never mind that their situation never improves and never mind that the number of those ‘trodden-upon’ is ever-increasing… that just gives the Democrats more leverage when they stumble upon an election year. Pathetic.
OBAMA-LOVING PARROT: AMERICAN CL, I disagaree with you. You cannot say why people are Democratic. There are a number of reasons. There are people of all income levels that are Democratic. People don’t need other people’s money but they do not like dishing it out either to people like Pharmaceutical and Insurance companies making them rich while we have low quality insurace. I would rather give my money to a healthcare plan that in turn gives insurance to people that need it.
As for the Community Organizing and Barack Obama: I disagree. We all go thru stages in our life on a path to eventually lead us to where we will be. Barack I am sure was not thinking at that time. “O yeh, I will do this so that I can become President one day”. He did it at the time because he believed in it. And he wanted to organize a community to come together to advocate for themselves. He did it bacause it was his interest. It led him to other things, of course and on a path toward his Presidency. But at that time,
OBAMA-LOVING PARROT: where he was he was not thinking that one day he would become President of the United States. Community Organizing for the position that he had was extremely low pay and hard long hours dealing with members of the community who didn’t have a clue how to make their community better. He was at the low end of he totum pole. It’s not government funded. And it actually works. And as for him getting made fun of for doing it. That’s exactly what happened. I heard it with my own ears. I heard John McCain say “Community Organizer, what is that?” I heard Sarah Palin make fun of it. I heard many others make fun of it.
MICHAEL IN MI: “It’s not government funded. And it actually works.”
Right. The only “community organizing” that “work[ed]” for Obama was his training of ACORN in their race-hustling and illegal voter registration and voter fraud activities. Other than that, nothing Obama did while a “community organizer” “work[ed]”.
And the reason he was made fun of for claiming that as some sort of qualification for office is because he accomplished absolutely nothing while doing it. He was an utter failure and he never once explained what he did as “community organizer” which was so great as to qualify him to be Chief Executive of the United States. Hell “community organizer” doesn’t qualify *anyone* to be chief executive of a car wash. That’s why it was such a joke and he was rightly ridiculed.
Compared to Sarah Palin’s experience as a mayor, being a part of the energy industry, and then being a governor and compared to Senator McCain’s decades long experience in the US Senate, to prop oneself up…
MICHAEL IN MI: …as better qualified to be President based on being a failed “community organizer” is an utter joke.
Unless you care to enlighten us all here as to what brilliant accomplishments Obama has in his careers as “community organizer” (and training the race-baiters and voter fraud scum at ACORN does not count), IL State Legislator (other than giving grants to his wife’s hospital and crusading to make sure doctors are forced to leave babies born alive from abortions to die) and his 150-some odd days in the US Senate (where the only thing he championed was a Global Poverty Act which would have taxed every American in the country for $800 Billion to send the United Nations)…?
AMERICAN CL: OBAMA-LOVING PARROT – If you read what I wrote, I never said that’s “why” people are Democrats. I said that Democrats USE the victim mentality to win elections (with the assistance of an ignorant general populace… which includes many individuals who couldn’t even tell you what Democrats believe if you paid them.)
Something I also never said: that Barack Obama “knew” he wanted to be President one day and that’s why he became a “community organizer”. (I mean, I know that’s the first thing I think when I think “President of the United States” is “effective community organizer”, but that’s beside the point…) A “community organizer” is such a made-up, generic, BS term that it’s actually laughable. No one had ever heard of it before this last election cycle.
Furthermore, a question I have asked 3 times now and MICHAEL IN MI has asked at least once that I’ve noted, but we have yet to receive an answer to: What did Barack Obama DO when he was a “community organizer”? What did he actually ACCOMPLISH?
AMERICAN CL: I would like to politely request it in list-form. No “talking around the question”… Here, I’ll start:
BARACK OBAMA’S ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS A COMMUNITY ORGANIZER:
MICHAEL IN MI: AMERICAN CL — You could actually make it an even simpler question and ask “What did Barack Obama DO during any point of his political career?” Beyond giving speeches, I don’t know of one concrete thing he accomplished during his entire public career as a “community organizer”, race hustler with ACORN and Rev Wright at TUCC, IL State Legislator or US Senator. Last I knew, graduating college, giving speeches and winning elections didn’t qualify one for executive positions. But, that is the standard and precedent 69+ million Americans set last NOV. Brilliant.
That said, I wait with baited breath for the list of Obama’s accomplishments as community organizer…
By the way, anyone know if Obama ever kept his 2006 promise to the school kids in Kenya? http://tinyurl.com/5ug2jz
MICHAEL IN MI: I also don’t think he accomplished anything during his time in charge of the funds for Billy Ayers’ Chicago Annenberg Challenge.
OBAMA-LOVING PARROT: First of all, Christi, I have always known what a Community Organizer is. And so have many other people. It is not a made up name. And when he was being made fun of for this position the Politicians knew exactly what a Community Organizer is. A Community Organizer is usually a person at the low end of the totum pole who helps gather people together in that community who are poverty. What do they do? Nothing to gain National Attention. It has to be in your heart to help people in order to do it. Many of the women are single women with children. Many of the children have turned to drugs. Many fathers are not around. They live in poor conditions in “low income housing” situations. They often have a hard time getting repairs done. The Community Organizer gathers the Community members together and helps them learn to advocate for themselves. To stick up for themselves. To learn that just because a “big shot” says something is true does not mean that it is.
OBAMA-LOVING PARROT: The Community Organizer assists the people in advocating for money, grants and helps them become assertive in regards to schooling for their children. Just because a teacher says something doesn’t make it right. A Community Organizer helps them learn self-respect. When there is something wrong with their apartment buildings such as lead or something dangerous the Community Organizer will hold team meetings and organize a meeting with the city if not taken care of and often go to the public eye if not done. So, that my dear is what a Community Organizer does. They receive very low pay. Let’s see? If I wanted to become a Community Organizer at this time I may make around 20,000 a year, roughly 10.00 an hour with no insurance working for the people all hours probly around 40-60 hours weekly. So, exactly what he did you can read his book. But I just provided you with an overall pic. of what he did. The job is not hard to understand. It’s just another job in the field of
OBAMA-LOVING PARROT: in the field of Social Work in my opinion. And no, I have never ever heard of another Community Organizer becoming the President of the United States. But they have been other things. And Barack talks about his job as a Community Organizer because I am sure he is proud of it. Not only is he proud of it but he was able to work with a population that he is now able to relate to seeing as he lived in the same neighborhood and became a part of the community. So, I would suggest that you never put down someone for helping mankind unless you know in your full heart and are absolutely positively sure that he did it distastefully. God knows what his intentions were and it really doesn’t matter too much about what anyone else thinks about his Community Organizing. because to be honest we need more people to do it. Any Volunteers??
OBAMA-LOVING PARROT: Well, guys, just to let you know:) I was offline before so therefore, I could not answer your question.:):)
AMERICAN KH: Sincere, compassionate people can use a spot like “community organizer” to do some good things. Power hungry, arrogant elitists with political ambitions (which it is WELL documented he has long had) typically use it as a resume-builder, ego-stroke from helping “unfortunate victims,” and as a political stepping stone to develop connections in target communities. I do not wear rosy glasses on this. You can choose to if it suits your prejudged narrative. I am simply AMAZED you can’t see the road map drawn from the documentation of his academic and professional life which to many is as plain as the nose on our face.
MICHAEL IN MI: Let’s see… 1,2,3 long-winded posts of ‘community organizer… blah blah blah’ and not anywhere in there did the Obama-lover explain what Obama accomplished either as a “community organizer” in Chicago or in his entire political career. 39 comments in this thread and the only people who seem to know any details about Obama’s background are the non-Obama-lovers. Says a lot.
OBAMA-LOVING PARROT: You need to not call me “Obama Lover” There are many things he did. I told you above. Everything he did, I described. If you would like to know specifically he worked with the schools, and problems at the apartment buildings.
AMERICAN KH, You say what you want. I am not gonna bash someone for doing good for others. Obama did what he believed in at that time. Living and working and getting to know the poverty. Now he can relate to them and is working on policies to continue to help them.
AMERICAN KH: Do you honestly believe EVERYTHING that comes out of that man’s or his ghostwriter’s mouth? Honestly, do you ever even stop and ask yourself whether you are swallowing it whole and think critically? If you are so sure of yourself and of him… then I’m sure you’ll only feel better reading opposing viewpoints (not FB posts, but scholarly works).
OBAMA-LOVING PARROT: Actually, AMERICAN KH I had these views before he even became President. These are my views.
MICHAEL IN MI: “At this time, there are 3 Republicans giving him a hard time about the health care.”
At this time there are numerous Blue Dogs in the House which are giving Pelosi and Obama a hard time. The Republicans have nothing to do with it, since they have absolutely no power to stop anything the Democrats and Obama want to do. The only thing holding up healthcare being shoved down America’s collective throat are Blue Dog Democrats who are being told by their constituents to not vote for the crap sandwhich the Democrats and Obama are trying to push through.
Michael Moore? Seriously!? Wow. Just wow.
OBAMA-LOVING PARROT: Actually, I was just giving an update from the news I read! The news stated that if the 3 Republicans do not want to agree that the Democrats want him to just go and push it thru. And he very well may do that. But he has always voted to compromise and try to work things out so he doesn’t want it to ruin his reputation that he is trying to create by telling people to get along and work things out. So, we shall see. Yes, I believe it will go thru. I believe Obama will push it thru anyway. So, that’s all I was doing Michael was giving an update of what I heard. Only time will tell what is going to happen. And if it happens this will be the biggest change of the Nation in I don’t even know how long.
OBAMA-LOVING PARROT: Actually, Obama had his hand on the Presidency since Bill Clinton days, in my opinion. When Hillary did not push healthare thru I believe Barack Obama said to himself, “I will make sure that it happens. To be honest I think that is the major reason that he wants to be President of the United States, I think it has driven him and he will stop at nothing until healthcare is reformed. Whether I agree or disagree it doesn’t matter. I was just stating what I think. One thing tho, don’t think he will take a buyout.
MICHAEL IN MI: “He’s always voted to compromise”.
Yeah, whatever the hell that means…
Here’s another update for you: http://ace.mu.nu/archives/290225.php
And another: http://ace.mu.nu/archives/290227.php
The fact is the American people know Obama is full of crap and don’t want this passed, yet Obama intends to shove it down our throats anyway. There is no “compromise” and Obama has never voted ever to “compromise” in his entire political career. He has always voted FAR left or “present”. Unless that is the new definition of “compromise” in Parrot-world: always voting leftist or “present”.
MICHAEL IN MI: Hillary didn’t push healthcare through because the American people wanted none of it and told her in no uncertain terms to go eff herself if she thought she was going to push through government run healthcare. The American people do NOT want it. They didn’t want it then and they sure as hell do not want it now. THAT is why the Democrats and Obama are stalled with this, because they are trying to push through MASSIVE government control of healthcare that the American people DO.NOT.WANT. PERIOD.
So Obama is acting on his own, pushing a major government control legislation that only he and the Democrats want, NOT the American people. Every single poll shows the more the American people find out about this BS healthcare bill, the more they hate it.
So Obama is doing something only HE wants, no one else. I wonder if that is part of the definition of “compromise” in Parrot-world too…
OBAMA-LOVING PARROT: I think it means working together. But he is very hellbent and driven to get this healthcare thru. He will try working with the people at first to keep his image but if it fails he will push it thru. No Doubt. If he leaves it alone, than I will be shocked. And think he took a buyout which I can’t really see him doing either. It’s gonna go thru whether we like it or not like it. So, the truth is we are just gonna have to adjust. When something happens I don’t like I always say: “it’s not gonna kill me, i will adjust and i still have myself, family and friends.:)
MICHAEL IN MI: Do you have any clue what this healthcare bill is all about? “We’re just going to have to adjust?” Are you kidding me? You’re going to roll over and allow our government to pass something that the majority of the country does not want and will destroy our way of life? You’ve got to be kidding me. Geez, this is an absolute waste of time discussing this with you. I’m done.
AMERICAN KH: OBAMA-LOVING PARROT… he ALREADY has taken MAJOR buyouts from numberous unions, trial lawyers, Soros, CEOs, etc… don’t think for a minute they don’t expect something from all the “help” they’ve given him. Those lobbies are lobbying FOR something.
AMERICAN KH: He does not have a track record of bipartisanship. It’s simply a documented fact. Michael’s research is right. See, this is like Oz… there’s the Wizard… then there’s the guy behind the curtain. In the movie it’s one in the same, but in real life there’s Obama… then there’s Obama’s donors about whom we know little and hear less. THOSE are the powerful forces behind him. He’s the youth, charisma, resume, and orator they need to sell their agenda to systematically “remake America” as O has often said he would do. Soros is just one man. There are others. They are not pro-American. They are not capitalist. They are not poor, nor do they particularly care about the poor… except to exploit them for votes and therefore positions of power from which to implement this from the inside. Don’t believe me or think it’s some weird conspiracy theory? Point blank Q for Parrot: Have you read up on the Cloward/Piven strategy? Have you studied Saul Alinsky’s writings? Yes/no?
AMERICAN KH: And again, if you don’t believe me… you can actually read it in their very own words… if you are open to reading something which may contradict what you have chosen to believe up to this point… that the intentions driving what’s taking place in DC are all good.
MICHAEL IN MI: AMERICAN KH — OBAMA-LOVING PARROT still hasn’t answered the question about Obama’s accomplishments in his career, specifically about his time as a “community organizer”. Mainly because she doesn’t have a clue about Obama’s background at all. So I wouldn’t expect her to have the first clue about Cloward-Piven or Saul Alinsky either. Afterall, Obama is simply just a swell guy who is well rounded because he talks to lots of different people, not just terrorists, communists, racists and socialists. Afterall, don’t you have terrorists and communists and racists as your mentors too, to make you well-rounded, of course? I mean, who doesn’t. I regularly meet with my KKK group and my “God Hates F@gs” Michigan chapter of the Westboro Baptist Church and count an abortion clinic bomber as one of my good, close political allies. I’m glad there are people like Parrot around who would find that out about me and realize that I just do that to be a well rounded person. Most other people find out about that stuff..
MICHAEL IN MI: …and immediately consider me a racist, anti-homosexual, radical right-winger.
AMERICAN KH: See OBAMA-LOVING PARROT… we’ve read this stuff… right from the horse’s mouth… THAT’S why we tell you what we do. We take them at their word what they want to do. It’s not about your pre-held ideas (pre-O) of helping people who truly need it… or even the socialist idea of somehow trying to “level things out”… NOoooo it’s far more sinister than that. It’s about raw power concentrated in a very small group of elites. It’s not level…. it’s an exceedingly wealthy politburo shutting a door at the top of the ladder so no one can get up after them… the middle class doesn’t grow… it’s withers and dies… then all struggle… equally… except of course, the elite who have slowly, quietly, and methodically seized power in the midst of the manufactured crisis… during which the middle class has been promised help if only they will trust the expanding gov’t with more and more power.
MICHAEL IN MI: Read up on Cloward-Piven Strategy here: http://tinyurl.com/nudv5f
OBAMA-LOVING PARROT: I choose to wait and see what happens. I am not going to condemn Barack Obama. As of far he has been a far more honest President than many and I happen to have my own views. I have a right to want to support him and I am not arguing anymore.
OBAMA-LOVING PARROT: O, just one more thing. If what you say is true about Barack Obama and just a few people being elite? Why is it that there are only a few elite people right now as we speak and everyone else appears to be losing homes, cars, jobs, and no money. But yet there are a few very Elite that did quite well these past years.
And 1 more thing. People like Bill Gates, and Tom Monaghan, they have a special talent. They achieved their money thru their talent. And not only that we have benefitted from their wealth. We have Microsoft and wonderful pizza. And they also donate tremendous amounts to charity and never mind paying taxes. They never tried to get anyone to spend money they didn’t have. Because they invented something from their Passion and deserve it. There are some others who talked people into buying things with money they didn’t have.
OBAMA-LOVING PARROT: O, and Michael, You said “there’s people like me” Well, I just checked Rasmussen Polls and I guess there’s a whole heck of a lot people like me. Obama’s ratings did go down a few points but you have to read everything they say. It’s not just about the ratings. It’s about the overall picture. There is a lot to read. And in the paragraphs the majority of voters are supportive of him.
Another typical “discussion” with an Obama-lover on Obamacare.
[Part I is HERE]
SELF-PROCLAIMED GENIUS OBAMA-LOVER: There is not a collapse in support. There’s just really, really dumb people being bussed in to scream arguments that they’ve been given scripts for at events where people much smarter than they are are discussing things that these sh#theads are too stupid to understand.
COMMON SENSE AMERICAN: That’s exactly what the DNC is telling you, but the polls suggest otherwise, and I’m talking polls across the board and on average-all show a collapse of support for Obama+Dems on healthcare, spending and approval, and that collapse comes from independents, centrists, and moderates; ie the 7% of Americans who voted for Obama instead of McCain. This DNC ad is political propaganda. Why would anyone believe yet another claim that it’s a vast right wing conspiracy?
SELF-PROCLAIMED GENIUS OBAMA-LOVER: Because it is. I’ve seen the documents.
COMMON SENSE AMERICAN: Yep & I saw the docs showing that the dems deliberately worked to mislead people that the Iraq War was a Bushlied conspiracy (it’s called the Rockefeller Memo). I’ve no doubt the left and right are calling on groups to go to these meetings, but the support drop isn’t from the left or the right. It’s from the middle… a middle that used to be successfully misled by the left. It’s not like sending protest groups to confront elected officials is something new and shocking for the left – not since they did it incessantly for 8yrs.
Michael in MI: [COMMON SENSE AMERICAN] — Why do you bother?
SELF-PROCLAIMED GENIUS OBAMA-LOVER: Oh, look – it’s the guy who doesn’t know shit. Back for more abuse?
COMMON SENSE AMERICAN: SELF-PROCLAIMED GENIUS OBAMA-LOVER is a good friend. We debate and discuss. I know his heart is good, his morals are good, and that he’s just been misled (albeit repeatedly and without resistance).
COMMON SENSE AMERICAN B: SELF-PROCLAIMED GENIUS OBAMA-LOVER, why do you always have to cuss and call people names? it is very unattractive.
SELF-PROCLAIMED GENIUS OBAMA-LOVER: I use simple, easy to understand colloquial American English.
SELF-PROCLAIMED GENIUS OBAMA-LOVER: BTW, – we are not allowed to have this discussion in Florida. ##### would most likely murder me.
COMMON SENSE AMERICAN: Oh I know. Like I said, I know YOU. I respect you. You’re an intelligent guy. You just doubt everything from the right, and almost nothing from the left. I have the luxury of time and the ability to search multiple sources and find the consensus of what’s really going on. That’s it.
SELF-PROCLAIMED GENIUS OBAMA-LOVER B: ‘Again the right wing fear/corporate/lobbyists machine is doing its job with its propaganda and half truths. If you scream it loud enough and repeatedly many will believe. Then at that point the truth no longer matters.
Health care reform is a huge deal and everyone is an easy target. Fear and doubt once induced is a powerful motivator and tends to not go away easily even after it’s proven to be a false fear. The “War on Terror” “The War on Drugs” “Terrorism” “Socialism” all very powerful catch phrases. It all just sickens me to no end. Whoever has the best pr firm and the more money will this fight. The “Truth” is a very muddy and relative term.
I have to same strong feelings on this matter and others and usually completely agree with SELF-PROCLAIMED GENIUS OBAMA-LOVER. I feel the need to curse, and yell and even kick ass but I refrain. I have no idea why though lol.
Michael in MI: “SELF-PROCLAIMED GENIUS OBAMA-LOVER is a good friend. We debate and discuss. I know his heart is good, his morals are good, and that he’s just been misled (albeit repeatedly and without resistance).”
That does not explain why you bother. One side presenting facts and the other side responding with “you’re a f#cking ret#rd, because I said so, because I am ten times smarter than you and everyone else on the planet” is not “debate” or discussion of anything. And someone who willingly allows himself to be misled repeatedly is not a sign of any kind of intelligence. And I disagree with COMMON SENSE AMERICAN B… cussing out one’s debate opponents is not “unattractive”, it is being an a-hole.
Now, I have yet to see the self-proclaimed genius provide any facts from the bill whatsoever. Instead, I have seen nothing but cussing, attacks and accusations of “scare tactics”… and his feelings about what should be. If you consider that to be good morals and intelligence, then you must have different definitions of such than me.
August 5, 2009 , 1:46PM Posted by Michael in MI | Barack Obama, Communism, Debating an Obama-Lover, Fascism, Healthcare, Leftist Groups, Liberalism, Marxism, Socialism | Comments Off on Debating an Obama-Lover — Part II
“We don’t read and write poetry because it’s cute. We read and write poetry because we are members of the human race. And the human race is filled with passion. And medicine, law, business, engineering, these are noble pursuits and necessary to sustain life.
But poetry, beauty, romance, love, these are what we stay alive for.
To quote from Whitman, “O me! O life!… of the questions of these recurring; of the endless trains of the faithless… of cities filled with the foolish; what good amid these, O me, O life?”
Answer. That you are here – that life exists, and identity; that the powerful play goes on and you may contribute a verse.
That the powerful play *goes on* and you may contribute a verse. What will your verse be?” — Professor John Keating, Dead Poets Society (1989)
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“Treat a man as he is and he will remain as he is. Treat a man as he could be, and he will become what he should be.” —Ralph Waldo Emerson
———- ———- ———-
“The purpose of life is not to be happy. It is to be useful, to be honorable, to be compassionate, to have it make some difference that you have lived and lived well.” —Ralph Waldo Emerson
———- ———- ———-
“Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armageddon.”
———- ———- ———-
“A political party cannot be all things to all people. It must represent certain fundamental beliefs which must not be compromised to political expediency or simply to swell its numbers.”
—Ronald Reagan 1975
“Don’t give up your ideals, don’t compromise, don’t turn to expediency — and don’t, for heaven’s sake, having seen the inner workings of the watch — don’t get cynical.”
—Ronald Reagan, 1976
———- ———- ———-
———- ———- ———-
Rorschach’s Journal. November 12th, 1985: Dog carcass in alley this morning, tire tread on burst stomach. This city is afraid of me. I have seen its true face. The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout “Save us!”… and I’ll whisper “no.”
———- ———- ———-
“You see, Doctor, God didn’t kill that little girl. Fate didn’t butcher her and destiny didn’t feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night, He didn’t seem to mind. From then on I knew… God doesn’t make the world this way. We do.“
———- ———- ———-
“Men get arrested. Dogs get put down.”
———- ———- ———-
“And I am reminded, on this holy day, of the sad story of Kitty Genovese. As you all may remember, a long time ago, almost thirty years ago, this poor soul cried out for help time and time again, but no person answered her calls. Though many saw, no one so much as called the police. They all just watched as Kitty was being stabbed to death in broad daylight. They watched as her assailant walked away. Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men. —Monsignor, Boondock Saints (1999)
———- ———- ———-
“Never shall innocent blood be shed, yet the blood of the wicked shall flow like a river. The Three shall spread their blackened wings and be the vengeful striking hammer of God.” —Il Duce, Boondock Saints (1999)
———- ———- ———-
“Now you will receive us. We do not ask for your poor, or your hungry. We do not want your tired and sick. It is your corrupt we claim. It is your evil that will be sought by us. With every breath we shall hunt them down. Each day, we will spill their blood till it rains down from the skies. Do not kill, do not rape, do not steal, these are principles which every man of every faith can embrace. These are not polite suggestions, these are codes of behavior and those of you that ignore them will pay the dearest cost. There are varying degrees of evil, we urge you lesser forms of filth not to push the bounds and cross over, into true corruption, into our domain. For if you do, one day you will look behind you and you will see we three. And on that day, you will reap it. And we will send you to whatever god you wish. And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee. Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command. So we shall flow a river forth to Thee, and teeming with souls shall it ever be. In nomine Patri. Et Fili. Spiritus Sancti.” —Boondock Saints (1999)
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