AmeriCAN-DO Attitude

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GEN Petraeus is Enabling Muslim Violence

Petraeus warned that burning Qurans “is precisely the kind of action the Taliban uses and could cause significant problems — not just here, but everywhere in the world we are engaged with the Islamic community.”

And one of his deputies, Lt. Gen. William Caldwell, told CNN’s “The Situation Room” that the event “has already stirred up a lot of discussion and concern” among Afghans.

“We very much feel that this can jeopardize the safety of our men and women that are serving over here in the country,” said Caldwell, the head of NATO efforts to train Afghan security forces.

Caldwell said American troops “are over here to defend the rights of American citizens, and we’re not debating the First Amendment rights that people have.” But he added, “What I will tell you is that their very actions will in fact jeopardize the safety of the young men and women who are serving in uniform over here and also undermine the very mission that we’re trying to accomplish.”

Many different blogs that I read have covered the issue of the Florida church decision to burn Korans on 9/11/2010…

AoSHQ: Gen. Petraeus: Church’s Planned Koran-burning Endangers the Troops
Blackfive:
PETRAEUS SAYS KORAN BURNING COULD ENDANGER TROOPS
This Ain’t Hell:
Petraeus warns that Koran burning is bad for the troops
Atlas Shrugs:
MUSLIMS IN INDONESIA, AFGHANISTAN RIOT OVER KORAN BURNING IN FLA
ISAF: NATO Forces in Afghanistan:
AFP: Koran burning will endanger US lives: Petraeus
AoSHQ (DrewM): Burning Korans… A Stupid Idea That Reveals A Lot Of People Are Stupid
The Jawa Report: Burning Korans and Stopping Mosques Out of Spite
Michelle Malkin: The Koran: Don’t burn it. Read it.

…and, after reading many different arguments and opinions on the issue, I still firmly believe that GEN Petraeus is wrong and that his statements are both enabling and encouraging Muslims to continue to be violent. GEN Petraeus is basically agreeing with Ron Paul, that it’s not the ideology of Islam that is the problem, it is the actions of the United States and Americans that is the problem. That, if Americans were to simply stop our actions — stop ‘meddling’ in other countries, stop burning Korans, etc — that Muslims would behave and we could live in peace. That is simply delusional and I am extremely disappointed to hear the commanding General in a war effort subscribe to such a deluded view, blaming Americans for the violence of Muslims, instead of the actual reason: ISLAM.

Here are a couple comments I left at This Ain’t Hell:

Michael in MI Says:
September 7th, 2010 at 5:09 pm

“Since Jones has heard from the top commander on the ground in Afghanistan and he’s been told that he’s endangering the troops with his completely selfish demonstration of the capacity of his brain, I guess we can call his actions anti-military and anti-US since he’s doing the exact same thing that IVAW and Code Pink have been doing for years. Hiding behind the Bible doesn’t change the effect it will have on the battlefield.”

So why didn’t GEN Petraeus make a statement during the previous 7 years for CODE PINK, IVAW and International ANSWER to knock off their “anti-war” rallies, because they were giving aid and comfort to the enemy and were getting our military members killed? Why are we only getting a statement about Koran burning?

I see this in the same vein as censoring the Mohammad cartoons.

Are we going to continue to curtail our own freedoms here, because Muslims have not evolved from the 7th Century?

I believe after WWII, we told Japan that it would no longer practice Shintoism as a State religion. And Germany would no longer have NAZIism. Both countries would be secular and would unconditionally abide by the demands of the victorious Allies. Fast forward to now and both countries are flourishing having been forced “by the point of a gun” to evolve.

We are doing the exact opposite in Afghanistan and Iraq. We are coddling an ideology akin to Shintoism and NAZIism. Imagine if we had allowed the new governments of Japan and Germany to keep Shintoism and NAZIism, respectively. That’s what we have done in Afghanistan and Iraq. We have not only allowed them to keep their own version of NAZIism, but we have told our own nations to stop doing things that will offend the NAZIs.

This is madness.

Instead of upholding the oath the US Military made to defend the rights within the US Constitution, the US military is telling US citizens to curtail their rights. This could have acted as a teaching moment for GEN Petraeus to tell Muslims that in modern civilized society, people are not justified in violence or murder in response to being mocked or offended.

Also, if the point is that we shouldn’t mock or offend Muslims or Islam when we have troops in harms way, I guess we’re never going to evolve Islam into modern civilization, as we did with Japan and Germany post-WWII. Considering we still have troops on bases all over the world, I anticipate we’ll continue to have troops on bases in Afghanistan and Iraq for decades as well. So, apparently, there’s never going to be a good time to stand up to totalitarian Islam, because our troops will always be in harms way, and there will always be someone to say “stop doing X, because it will only offend Muslims and give them a reason to kill our troops”.

I find it highly ironic that our military has come out and asked Americans to stop burning Korans, because Americans are in danger of being killed by angry Muslims, yet no one has come out — government or military — and asked the Muslims to not build a mosque at Ground Zero in New York.
My little brother is over in Afghanistan now (CPT in US Army) and I could not be prouder of the guy. But I just sit back and wonder why the hell we’re over there anymore, since it does not seem we’re attacking the core problem — Islam — and instead we’re simply emboldening their bad behavior.

Michael in MI Says:
September 7th, 2010 at 5:19 pm

Muslims get violent about everything percieved to be against allah, except

Throwing acid on Schoolgirls, Cutting off Noses and ears, killing 6 year olds for Being US Spies, Blowing up aything they can get. Cutting off a Professors hand for writing paper questioning Muhammeds Life.

Sorry my tolerance for Muslims feelings has run out.

Does anyone think if these Idiots dont burn the Koran that Mullah Omar will walk upt to a US patrol with Ice Cream for them?

That OBL will be offering free Pony Rides at FOB Salerno?

Exactly, Sean.

If we’re going to change our behavior to make our soldiers at less risk, why don’t we just ask the Taliban for their demands and then abide by them? No one was burning Korans pre-9/11/2001 and yet they hijacked planes and killed 3,000 of our countrymen. No one was burning Korans in 1996 and 1998 when Osama made his fatwas against the United States.

So where does this end? There are *plenty* of things that inflame Muslims and put not only our troops in danger, but also civilians in countries around the world where there are large Muslim populations who riot over the slightest offense to their delicate sensibilities. Are we to just ask the Taliban for their list of grievances, so as to know what not to do, in order to keep our troops safe?

There is a reason that Christians, Jews, Mormons, Scientologists and every other religious group does not get violent and go on murderous rampages whenever they have cause to be offended. Because the civilized world told them to get the f*** over themselves and stop being whiney babies.
We are doing the exact opposite with Muslims. As a result, we are emboldening them to continue their threats, so that they get their way.

When does this end?

I don’t get the reasoning that if my brother dies, because some Muslims were offended at their Koran being burned here in America, that I am to get pissed off at the Church, instead of at the lunatics who subscribe to a 7th Century death cult. The Koran burning would not have killed my brother. The ideology that justifies killing in response to being offended would have killed him.

And, again, that is the core issue and problem: the ideology of Islam. Yet, instead of treating it like every other ideology/religion is treated, we are giving them special treatment, and thus enabling their totalitarian behavior. And GEN Petraeus is using his position to give Muslims even *more* undue protection from criticism.

I left these comments on the Facebook page for “ISAF: NATO forces in Afghanistan“:

“shame shame, for every action there is a reaction….”

Wrong. If someone were to burn Bibles, Christians would not react with violence. If someone were to burn Torahs, Jews would not react with violence. If someone were to burn Books of Mormon, Mormons would not react with violence.

It is FAR past time that we do NOT accept that WE must walk on eggshells for fear of the Muslims’ delicate sensibilities.

And where was Petraeus when the “anti-war” protesters were giving aid and comfort to our enemies in Iraq and Afghanistan? He didn’t tell “anti-war” protesters not to protest for fear of giving aid and comfort to the the Taliban and al Qaeda.

This is nothing but cowtowing to Muslims’ threats of violence. The MUSLIMS are in the wrong here.

No one would dare tell any group not to burn Bibles or Torahs or Books of Mormon for fear of inciting violence. They only do when Korans are burned. That says more about Muslims than it does about anyone burning Korans.

Do I believe anyone should burn Korans? No. But that is a completely separate issue than Petraeus telling us we need to behave differently here at home so as not to offend Muslims abroad.

What he SHOULD do is use this as a teaching moment for Muslims. He SHOULD say that it is understandable for any Muslim to be offended by those who offend their religion, BUT that no one has the right to use their offense to justify violence or murder.

==========

You know the best way to keep our soldiers safe from Muslim violence? Not having to send them to the Middle East to fight against a totalitarian death cult hell bent on world domination. Know how we don’t have to send them to the Middle East? By bringing Muslims into the 21st Century and getting them out of their 7th Century death cult mindset.

And that will NOT happen by submitting to their every threat of violence over every action we do that they do not like.

Every other religion and group of people is open to mocking and ridicule. Every other religion and group of people have learned to react to the mocking and ridicule without violence. Every one except Muslims. Why is that? Because we keep giving in to their threats of violence and giving them reason to continue to threaten us. They threaten because it WORKS. They will STOP when it stops working. It will stop working when we stand up to them and tell them NO MORE.

==========

I repeat my earlier question:

What would people say if GEN Petraeus told all the “anti-war” protesters to stop protesting, because it was giving aid and comfort to our enemies and causing our troops to get killed, just like it did during the Vietnam War?

Do those people who are saying the Christian Church is made up of a bunch of idiots also hold the same view for everyone who participated in an “anti-war” protest?

How about the Mohammad Cartoon controversy? Should we not mock Islam at all, because it might make Muslims mad and give them a propaganda coup to hurt our soldiers?

How about the Ground Zero Victory Mosque? Should we stop our protests of their efforts to enact shari’a law in the heart of New York City, because if we do not then it might make Muslims mad and give them a propaganda coup to hurt our soldiers?

What other freedoms granted to us by the US Constitution — to which the US military is supposed to swear an oath to uphold — are we to give up simply because Muslims are stuck in the 7th Century with their delicate sensibilities and justification for murder and violence?

Newsflash for everyone: Muslims get upset about EVERYTHING. If it’s not the Koran burning, then it will be something else. Newsflash: Muslims have been justifying violence and murder of Americans for DECADES. And they will continue to do it for decades, if we keep coddling them and their delicate 7th Century sensibilities.

Unless people are now going to say we should ban all hedonistic behavior in America, because it offends someone or another and that someone or another could become violent and murder people. Everything that offends Christians… now banned. Everything that offends Jews… now banned. Everything that offends Mormons… now banned. Everything that offends Scientologists… now banned.

But, of course, that won’t happen. The only time people talk about banning things is when Muslims get their panties in a wad. And continuing to placate them EMBOLDENS them.

Again, I repeat, what helps our soldiers to keep them safe is to make sure Muslims stop being radical and evolve their backwards culture into the 21st Century. That does NOT happen by bowing down to every threat they make.

You know why our soldiers are over there right now in the first place? Because we didn’t stand up to these people DECADES ago. We have been coddling them and coddling them for DECADES and that has done nothing but EMBOLDEN them.

Continuing to coddle them now just means that the sons and daughters of the troops who are over there now are going to have to go there as well when they join the military, because this is never going to end if we continue to embolden them.

There were some good comments left at Blackfive addressing the fact that Americans have been working to help to improve the lives of Muslims all across the world for DECADES and, in return, they do nothing but hate us and kill us:

grtflmark said…

So – this is ALL very interesting.

I don’t remember the General excoriating the press for “placing our troops in danger” when The Media circulated the FALSE story that the Koran was flushed down the toilet at Guantanamo. Do YOU?

I don’t remember the General excoriating the press for “placing our troops in danger” when The Media circulated the FALSE story that Troops had stolen and vandalized “sacred art and history treasures” in Iraq. Do YOU?

I don’t remember the General excoriating Harry Reid for “putting our troops in danger” when Reid went on International Television and bellowed: “This War is LOST!!”. Do YOU?

I don’t remember the General excoriating Chris Matthews or Keith Olbermann or Wolf Blitzer or Katie Couric for “placing our troops in danger” after any of the THOUSANDS of statements they made CHEERING ON The Terrorists and DENIGRATING our Troops. Do YOU?!!!

One would almost think this was SELECTIVE AMNESIA!!

September 06, 2010 at 08:32 PM

Jack said in reply to grtflmark…

No, you are dead on, he did not say shit. Hell it was left to a Marine to say that the deadline is fueling the insurgency. Lets see, what should the general address first? A deadline that is in fact aiding our enemy and helping him to stay in the field or some guys burning a rag?

To say these guys are like the Westboro shit sacks is a stretch. One group wants to burn a book while the other likes to tap dance on the memories of our fallen. I have never considered doing so before, but if I can find a free copy of Mo’s book I am going to burn it too. I would much rather burn their cities and their places of worship but hey, I will stick to what is lawful.

It bothers me when we act as if it is OUR actions which cause these people to hate us. Protect them in Beirut and they kill you. Feed them in Somalia and they kill you. Create nations for them in Bosnia and Kosovo and they kill you. Help them free themselves of Soviet domination and they kill you. Go to work, get on a plane, believe something other than what they believe and they kill you. Promote them, provide for them the benefits of living among us and they kill you. Allow them to believe as they want and they kill you. So F#CK them if NOW, at LONG LAST, after all of the blood they can point to some Korans burned in Florida as the NEW, THE REASON they hate us.

F#ck them. F#ck them and then kill them.

Jack is SPOT-ON. America has been working for DECADES to help Muslims all around the world. And how do they repay us? By hating us and mass murdering us. Think about that. Muslims use American HELP as justification to murder us. So to say that some small church in a small town in Florida is putting soldiers in danger is ASSININE. You know what’s putting soldiers in danger? Their presence in Afghanistan. You know what else puts them in danger? The fact that we are bending over backwards to appease an ideology akin to NAZIism. THAT puts our soldiers in danger.

“grtflmark” makes another excellent point: why didn’t GEN Petraeus speak out over all the other actions that have been done since 2001 which put our soldiers in danger? Why didn’t he tell the mass media to stop giving aid and comfort to the Taliban and al Qaeda? Why didn’t he tell IVAW and CODE PINK and International A.N.S.W.E.R. and the rest of the “anti-war” groups to stop their protests, because it gave aid and comfort to the enemy? Why didn’t he tell the Democrats that their statements and actions to undermine the war efforts were giving aid and comfort to the enemy?

GEN Petraeus is working right into the hands of the shari’a law-supporting Muslims. Instead of doing his job — and keeping his oath — to uphold and defend the US Constitution, he is telling us to submit to the threats of Muslims and give up our freedoms to protest a hateful, intolerant, totalitarian ideology.

Tantor sums up this whole issue well in his comment at Blackfive:

Tantor said…

OK, so everyone agrees intellectually that burning Korans in protest is wrong and creepy to boot, even though emotionally it is a rather satisfying expression of contempt. Macchiavelli gets the last word on the issue with his dictum to do no enemy a slight harm. We should not fire for effect in the war against Islam but shoot to kill. So stop this silly Koran-burning grabass and get to work putting fire on the heads of our Muslim enemies.

The false premise of this entire controversy is that Muslim fanaticism is stoked by our behavior and dependent on us. It’s not. Muslims will hate America whatever we do because it is their doctrine to hate us. If we give them no reason, they will make one up. As a previous poster noted, Muslims want to kill whether you do them right or wrong or are indifferent.

We lifted Saudi Arabia up from abject poverty to indolent luxury and they hate us because we’re not Muslim, use the money to butcher Americans by the thousands. We aided Afghanistan in liberating them from the Soviets and they lend their country to terrorists to attack us. Muslims know no human gratitude. Their morality is reptilian.

As Bernard Lewis wrote, Islam’s grievance with America is that it is a non-Muslim hyperpower in a world that should be ruled by Islam. When wannabe Sep 11 skyjacker Zacarious Moussaoui was asked by the judge why he wanted to attack America, Moussaoui said because Islam should be the superpower, not America. The reason why Muslims hate us is simple religious bigotry. Dressing such murderous Islamic bigotry up in rational causes and effects is like dressing a camel in an evening gown, tiara, and high heels. It’s absurd.

Exactly. It IS absurd. And it’s one level of absurdity for a political pundit or average Joe to state such delusions, but it’s an even HIGHER level of absurdity for the leading General in the war effort to do so.

And General Petraeus should know better. You do not stop violence, murder, hatred, bigotry and intolerance by enabling such by supporting their justifications for such. You stop it by standing up to it and denying them their justifications. But GEN Petraeus did just the opposite. He validated the Muslims irrational justifications for violence and ended up putting his troops in more danger and forsaking his oath to uphold American’s rights in the US Constitution.

It is absolutely disheartening to know that we currently have absolutely NO ONE standing up to Islam… not our current President, not our current Congressional or Senate leadership and now, as it turns out, not our top General in the war effort.

Here are some good comments from the discussion at the AoSHQ post:

24

Eesh. When the man leading the fight against the Taliban says you’re acting “precisely” like them, it might be time to stop and reevaluate.

I think he means it’s precisely the kind of thing the Taliban uses for propaganda purposes (“look how horrible the infidels are!”). Petraeus has seen too much of the Taliban’s handiwork to compare them to a crazy American.

While I think the Koran burning is an idiotic, unhelpful stunt, I really wish we would try and get the Islamic world to cut out some of the shit that pisses us off for a change.

I’ll be a lot more pissed about Koran burning once Pakistan, Iran, etc stops stoning women to death, hunting down apostates and missionaries, religious apartheid in Saudi Arabia, etc.

Of course, ‘outreach’ and ‘tolerance’ only ever goes one way in this world.

Posted by: DrewM. at September 06, 2010 06:29 PM

37 One wonders why none of their people EVER speak out that what they do may make us mad and cause harm to some of their fuckwits over here?

Posted by: Vic at September 06, 2010 06:34 PM

42
It’s absurd to assert that this will make a measureable difference to anything. Here we go again – worrying ourselves to death over what a bunch of vile, worthless savages think. Piss on them – the opinion of some Afghan goat herder means less than nothing to me.

I see one potential benefit from publicizing the koran burning party – perhaps it will discourage a few muslims from moving to this country. Let them go to Europe or Canada instead. Anything that makes America less welcoming to the muz is a good thing.

Posted by: Reactionary at September 06, 2010 06:36 PM

48 It’s rich for Islamic extremists to complain about a few idiots burning Korans when they have been burning Bibles, our flag, and let’s see, what was the other thing? Oh yes, cutting off heads of unbelievers for centuries.

We shouldn’t stoop to their level of course, but they have no room to complain.

Posted by: Shooter McGavin at September 06, 2010 06:39 PM

49 Are we over there to kick ass or win hearts and minds? Because if it’s the latter I say get the fuck out of Dodge. Islam is irredeemable. I’m tired of the islamists sensitivities being so easily offended. They oughta be thanking their moon gawd they’re not sitting around in a pile of radioactive cinders.

Posted by: Fuck Em at September 06, 2010 06:39 PM

50 My response to the General is that this is a political action in the U.S. and he should keep his nose out of it.

In addition, I would submit that the shitty PC attitudes of the current military leadership and the shitty ROE are much more danger to the troops than anything going on over here.

So clean the shit out of your own house before you bitch about the dust on the banisters of my stairwell.

Posted by: Vic at September 06, 2010 06:39 PM

54
I am certainly sympathetic to fact that the koran burners aren’t helping. What they are doing is provocative and stupid.

At the same time I’m not really comfortable with the idea of lecturing Americans on what they should or should not do because of the way foriegn people may react to it elsewhere. While I understand that Petreaus said he didn’t want to inhibit anybody’s first amendment rights… by bringing the prestige of his name and position, and the idea of “endangering the troops” into this matter, he has kind of done just that. This same meme could just as easily be used to attack opposition to the ground zero mosque, or opposition to CAIR, etc.

Posted by: Nate in Houston at September 06, 2010 06:41 PM

61

49 Are we over there to kick ass or win hearts and minds? Because if it’s the latter I say get the fuck out of Dodge. Islam is irredeemable. I’m tired of the islamists sensitivities being so easily offended. They oughta be thanking their moon gawd they’re not sitting around in a pile of radioactive cinders.Posted by: Fuck Em at September 06, 2010 06:39 PM

I was sitting here getting ready to say the same thing. Are we supposed to go to eternity worrying about every little thing that offends these people? I’ve thought a few times that maybe we should turn some area over there into glass and ask them how they like that. Any more shit and we have a list and Mecca is on it too. Now keep it up.

Posted by: Pocono Joe at September 06, 2010 06:44 PM

63 Liberals will love this. They’ll use it to tar all conservatives and GZ mosque opponents with this Koran burning idiot. No doubt the will throw Petraeus’ quote around a good bit.

Imagine for a moment their reaction if 3 or 4 years ago Petraeus had said, “Protesting the surge is not helpful and puts American lives in danger”. I’d bet their reaction to that would be very different.

Posted by: DrewM. at September 06, 2010 06:45 PM

77

Islam is irredeemable. I’m tired of the islamists sensitivities being so easily offended. They oughta be thanking their moon gawd they’re not sitting around in a pile of radioactive cinders.

Posted by: Fuck Em at September 06, 2010 06:39 PM

Exactly. Accomodating the muz brings nothing but a false peace, and gives them time to prepare for their next attrocity.

If anything, more acts of provocation are needed. It seems they need some more object lessons. Of course, we need to wait until a real man is in the White House, so no sense pushing too hard for a couple years.

Posted by: Reactionary at September 06, 2010 06:51 PM

80
For nine years troops have been getting killed by the handful on a daily basis because the generals can’t figure out a way to beat a 12th century enemy.

But let’s ask American citizens not to exercise their rights. That’ll help.

Posted by: i got a gal in kalamazoo zoo zoo zoo at September 06, 2010 06:52 PM

81
Look, this isn’t taking place in Afghanistan. It’s taking place here, in America. Are we really supposed to stop doing things like this here, because of what others in foreign countries might think?

I mean no disrespect when I say this, but we have an openly gay co-blogger named Gabriel Malor. I’m sure that pissess off someone overseas. Do we ditch Gabe? Hell no.

There are a lot of people who think we should let gays serve openly in the armed forces. Well, I’m sure the taliban would have a few things to say about that. So what? If the arguement is that gays have right to serve openly, do we let a bunch of mideval (sic) theocrats in the mountains of Afghanistan have their way about this?

I mean, when the Army clamped down on soldiers who wanted to proslethize (sic) or hand out Bibles in muslim countries, I could understand that.

But here? What the hell? If somebody burning a Koran here in the U.S. endangers U.S. troops overseas, well, I’m very sorry but that is a extra risk the troops will have to endure. And if some are killed because of this, I’m not blaming the Koran burners. I’m blaming the taliban.

Honestly, to me this seems like a no brainer. No disrespect intended, but I can’t see how we could let the taliban dictate what is alowed in terms of free speach here in the U.S.

Posted by: Ed at September 06, 2010 06:52 PM

83

Eesh. When the man leading the fight against the Taliban says you’re acting “precisely” like them, it might be time to stop and reevaluate.

Petraeus said that burning Korans is precisely the kind of thing that the Taliban uses to recruit and motivate troops. When those nutjobbers down in FL start stoning women to death, throwing acid in young girls faces for learning and dropping walls on gay people then they’ll be acting “precisely” like the Taliban.

In any case I think Petraeus and the other military leaders who commented overstepped their bounds. I don’t want additional troops to die anymore than anyone else but we also can’t kowtow to the delicate sensibilities of dark age savages. It’s a pointless, useless, stupid and offensive use of free speech rights but really the problem is not with the idiots down in FL it’s with the people who resort to violence when they are offended and Petraeus played into that with his comments. It would be like Eisenhower telling Americans during WWII not to say mean things about Nazi’s because they might fight harder.

Posted by: Big E at September 06, 2010 06:54 PM

85

65 I am with the General. This gives credence to Al Q’s claim that this is a war against Islam, which, ostensibly, it is not.

I remember the claim Korans were flushed at Gitmo, I’m sure that was a great recruiting tool and it wasn’t even true. The fact is the Taliban and company don’t need some idiot burning korans in order to recruit in the Muslim world, all they need is the ability to speak, so changing your behaior in order to not offend them is pointless and weak.

Posted by: Dr Spank at September 06, 2010 06:54 PM

116

It would be like Eisenhower telling Americans during WWII not to say mean things about Nazi’s because they might fight harder.Posted by: Big E at September 06, 2010 06:54 PM

Imagine, if you will, a Jewish congregation getting together in the late 30’s, early 40’s and burning a pile of copies of Mein Kampf in a public spectacle. Would we condemn them? I should hope not. Burning the koran is little different – in fact, that vile murder manual is a far more offensive book than Mein Kampf. It is more worthy to go up in smoke. It is the text that demands the muslims murder “the infidel” to the utter last. It is used to justify child molestation and rape. That a single copy should be allowed to exist in paper or electronic form within the borders of the United States is an embarassment.

Posted by: Reactionary at September 06, 2010 07:04 PM

156
Oh fuck Petreaus, burning their book is a dumb thing to do and I can’t think of much it accomplishes but if pissing off the Taliban is one thing it does then maybe it’s a good thing.

I never once heard Petreaus bitch about the anti war protesters undermining our troops and giving comfort to the enemy. I didn’t care that he didn’t because I understood his need to stay out of politics. Now the fucker wants to get political?

If he’s got a problem with it for real he should send it to Gates and let Gates explain to the burners why they shouldn’t be doing it.

Posted by: robtr at September 06, 2010 07:16 PM

161 I gotta be honest, I’m really not too concerned about the feelings of people in Afghanistan. Not in the slightest bit.

They allowed their country to be taken over by the Taliban in the first place. We’ve been there almost 9-years, we came to help them change their ways. They chose differently, mainly because of this stupid book.

Stupid stunt? Yeah, but I’m not going to have any sort of outrage about it. Not even entertain the idea. And I don’t buy the “it makes it more dangerous for our troops” argument. You’re doing it wrong, General.

Posted by: Editor at September 06, 2010 07:18 PM

609 As usual Malor is dead wrong on everything.

Muslims object to EVERYTHING. South Park episodes (that don’t even show Mohammed), Danish Cartoons, Swedish Drawings, films by obscure Dutch film-makers. Anything and everything.

Muslims burn American flags, and don’t face (sadly) retaliation by the “American Street.” Muslims celebrated 9/11, from the US to Palestinian territories to Pakistan, and faced no retaliation.

Bottom line, ANYTHING will provoke Muslims. ANYTHING. Modern telecommunications makes the Muslim world right next to ours. So we either roll over and become … Muslims. Or we keep fighting. If we did not have a single military person in Afghanistan or Iraq, we’d have something that would “provoke” Muslims.

The only solution is strength. Frequent and predictable retaliation against Muslim outrages to provide deterrence. Not empty Clintonian missiles, but real retaliation that kills a LOT of those agitating. When Clinton had the US intervening to save Muslims in Bosnia, to the point of war against Serbia, we got … the Embassy Bombings and planning for 9/11 and the Bojinka Plot and all that.

Muslims respect strength and despise weakness. This includes Domestic Muslims, like Major Hassan, or the Times Square Bomber too. That is all.

Posted by: whiskey at September 06, 2010 09:47 PM

613

Of course they do. They also get to live (or die) with the consequences whatever they may be. As I said, freedom of speech never implied freedom from consequences.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at September 06, 2010 09:37 PM

Purple Avenger, I can’t believe you mean that. Yeah, free speech can have some consequnces. Other people might argue or debate with you. You can get fired or not hired.

But killed? Since when did the chance of getting killed for saying something offensive become acceptable? I thought that was unacceptable and a criminal violation?

Yeah, you can get killed doing something like registering people to vote, or publishing a book, but I don’t think we agree that that is cool or acceptable.

If you kill someone for publishing an offensive book, you are the scumbag, not the guy who published the book.

I mean, ace has published some risque stuff. NO ONE has the right to hurt or kill him for this.

Posted by: Ed at September 06, 2010 09:49 PM

[09/08/10] — Absolutely excellent points — with which I 100% agree — made by DrewM today at AoSHQ:

Imagine the reaction if a few years back Petraeus had said anti-war protests and the constant promotion in the media of photos from Abu Gharib put American lives in danger and hurt the war effort. Do you really think Olby, Andrew Sullivan or any of their friends on the left would have suddenly cleaned up their language and taken on Code Pink, International Answers and then Senator Barack Obama?

In fact, I recall several news outlets breaking news and winning major awards for revealing national security secrets. Where was the outrage then about the danger to American lives?

Funny that, huh?

Another interesting byproduct of this situation is once again the disconnect between the “Islam equals peace” rhetoric and the reality people see on a daily basis. If Islam is so peaceful and only a “tiny minority’ of Muslims are “violent extremists”, why do we constantly have to be so damn sensitive to pissing them off?

When the whole Piss Christ thing happened Christians were told to suck it up and shut up. I don’t remember anyone worrying about marauding bands of Presbyterians going on a murder spree over it. But when it comes to cartoons or a bunch of loons (a true ‘tiny minority) burning some books, the world has to go on red alert if it involves Islam. Why is that exactly?

Naturally, some are making the story about those evil anti-Islamic conservatives. How come they never see the story is actually about the violence in the Islamic world? Now personally, I don’t think terrorists need any more inducement to violence, they being terrorists and all but it would be nice if for once a liberal could find a bad guy in the world other than American conservatives.

It’s also interesting that this group of idiots in Florida is seen as representing America in the Muslim world but we are forever being told by Muslim leaders not to equate Islam with the thousands of acts of terrorism conducted in the name of Islam. How do those two circles get squared?

Aren’t we always told after a terror plot is connected to a Muslim that we can not and will not tolerate a backlash against innocent Muslims? Fair enough but it’s a wasted warning since there never has been a backlash in America despite repeated attacks. Shouldn’t those always crying about these phantom backlashes be lecturing Muslims around the world not to create a backlash against American soldiers because of the actions of a few idiots in Florida?

Excellent, excellent questions. Ones you will neither hear asked nor answered by the MF-ing media or by any of our elected “leaders”.

Some good comments in response to the post:

I agree wholeheartedly with the point that if the freaks in the Christian world are to be considered the mainstream, then this rule applies for everything. That means Bin Laden speaks for Isalm, James Lee and ELF speak for the environmental movement, etc. etc. etc. Either it applies to all or it applies to none.

Posted by: alexthechick at September 08, 2010 12:02 PM

65 On top of it all, for weeks now we have been lectured by the Left that the Muslims have a right to build the GZM and that we are infringing on that right when we say the GZM is a bad idea and disrespectful to those who died on 9/11.

This Guy in Florida has a 1st Amendment Right to burn the Koran. While it is a bad idea and disrespectful of Islam, why isn’t the Left applying the same standard of protecting his rights?

I think it would be a great stunt if this Pastor holds the Koran in one hand and a lighter in the other. Just before he lights the book, he stops and says “The 1st Amendment gives me the Right to burn this book. The 1st Amendment give them the Right to build the Ground Zero Mosque. Both acts disrespect the views of the other. I’m not going to burn this book out of respect for Islam. I ask the builders of the GZM to show the same respect to the people of New York.”

Posted by: Eric at September 08, 2010 12:16 PM

66 It’s hard for me to get worked up about this. Burning Mein Kampf or Mao’s Little Red Book wouldn’t trouble me, either. Heck, you could even pull a Barry and burn some books by Churchill.

If drawing cartoons or saying you’re going to burn a book elicits such violence, then maybe it’s not really a religion.

Posted by: t-bird at September 08, 2010 12:16 PM

103
Adam Baldwin nailed it last night on his twitter.

“Which is worse for the troops:1) Sen. Reid saying “this war is lost”; 2) PrezBO setting withdrawal date; 3) private citizens burning a book? ”

Posted by: buzzion at September 08, 2010 12:24 PM

107 Let me just say up front that the guy who wants to do this is an attention whore who is about the worst advertisement of Christianity one could imagine short of Fred Phelps.

Well, on the other hand, the pastor is performing a service actually. The State Media tell us that Islam = peace constantly, and yet the second someone provokes Islam like this, the State Media tells us Muslims are easily roused to anger and should be appeased. So, the pastor’s actions basically disprove the media narrative as you note in passing.

Posted by: 18-1 at September 08, 2010 12:25 PM

139
This is just the Muslim Outrage d’ Jure… it will be some other manufactured outrage tomorrow. It really does not matter what we do, they will find somthing to get angry over…

Its instructive that the 500 person protest in Afganistan about this, chanted “Death to America”, and threw rocks at passing American vehicles… and this is BEFORE anything has been burned.

I also cringe when I see an American General commenting on Internal American Politics. The long tradition is for the Politicians, such as Sec Def, or the Pres and VP to comment… but Generals should not comment IMO… Patton and McArthur both got canned for doing so… and then of course there is always Custer as an example…

Posted by: Romeo13 at September 08, 2010 12:34 PM

149 If the Koran is so special to them, I say let them prove it. We should say that for every American soldier killed or injured, we burn the Koran. If they do not want the Koran hurt, don’t hurt our soldiers.

Posted by: chillin the most at September 08, 2010 12:38 PM

161 Christians and Christian missionaries are routinely persecuted by Muslims. Bibles are forbidden in Saudi Arabia, along with rosaries, crosses, crucifixes, holy cards, etc., etc. Christian churches are demolished in Pakistan and parishoners are killed without a burp from from the international media. It is hard for me to work up a lather about the ramifications of a tiny church in the USA burning some Korans, when agents of the Magic Kingdom burn Christian bibles by the barrel-full every year.

It seems every day Dinner Jacket and the ayatollahs promise a rain of destruction on Israel; call us the Great Satan; pay assassins top dollar to murder Americans in Afghanistan – and we’re supposed to condemn some idiots because they want to burn Korans. Like Islamists are suddenly going to be APPEASED because we told fellow Christians to JUST SHUT UP because otherwise, Muslim mobs will kill Christians? Like they so often do in Nigeria? Give me a break.

Posted by: mrp at September 08, 2010 12:43 PM

172
If the Koran is so special to them, I say let them prove it. We should say that for every American soldier killed or injured, we burn the Koran. If they do not want the Koran hurt, don’t hurt our soldiers.~chillin

How about just using Korans as added armor on the HumVees?

They burn the hummer, they burn Korans too. Never work, you say? Yeah, that’s because Muzzies take any opportunity to get outraged. Fuck them and their outrage.

Muslim perpetual outrage is just how they get infidels to comply with all Muslim demands. Surrender to any Muslim demand and eventually you will surrender to them all.

Posted by: Speller at September 08, 2010 12:46 PM

183
The fact that we don’t riot, kill or go off the deep end when Bibles, Crucifixes or Flags are burned doesn’t make us look ‘civilized’ in their eyes.

It simply shows them what they are better and stronger. That we are weak and self-debasing. That what they have is worth killing, dying and going off the deep end over. That their God is the one true God because he’s the kick ass God— the one who won’t put up with insults.

Ours is the God who forever complies who is merciful (OK we know it’s a good thing, but not in theirs….it’s viewed as ‘good slave material’)

I don’t condone burning the Koran. Sadly, not burning it (now) just makes us look weak and cowardly….. which they already believe.

It’s a no win situation. They’re the bullies writing the rules of ‘whose religion has the lightening bolts from heaven’ and we repeatedly say “Yours!”

Posted by: EZB at September 08, 2010 12:50 PM

187 When a minister burns a Koran, he’s a bigoted, extremist.

When a lefty defiles a cross, he’s an open-minded, brave truth seeker who seeks to challenge the assumptions of others.

And he gets government funding.

You know what? I’m glad these guys are burning the Koran, if for no other reason to draw attention to how differently the left values respecting the sensitivities of Christians vs. Muslims.

Posted by: Warden at September 08, 2010 12:54 PM

Since 1989, a from-memory list of things which have caused Muslims to threaten (and actually carry out) violence would include: novels, cartoons, films, BK ice cream, tennis shoe design, soccer ball design, girls schools, uncovered women, secular law, democracy, human rights, freedom of speech, and of course doing anything to the holey Quran.

It’s impossible to live in a post-Enlightenment world without offending sharia-pushing global-caliphate-seeking Muslims.

So obviously we should scrap the freedom to offend for some illusory security (until the next trivial blasphemy).

Posted by: Beagle at September 08, 2010 01:32 PM

I was in favor of the whole “creating democracy in Iraq” experiment. But, I am now firmly in the camp of “you can’t build a nation”. It is a 10 year experiment that has failed and failed badly.

We need to give up on nation-building or believing that anything we do will appease muslim extremists and thier “moderate” enablers. We are not going to change the muslim world.

So instead, we need to make the muslim world fear us. If we are going to use military force, we should seek to devastate the enemy. That is all. This is not like Germany or Japan where there were rational and civilized societies in place prior to WWII. In those cases we had a foundation to rebuild upon.

There is no such foundation here. We are kidding ourselves into thinking that the muslim world is going to begin to like us b/c of anything we do or any appeasement we engage in – such as everyone prostrating themselves to condemn those who would burn the koran. I don’t care if they burn the koran. And I am offended that a U.S. General would engage in conduct to censor free speech. Why not engage in that conduct to stop the NYT from printing classified information? Or to stop the left from telling soldiers to go AWOL or kill their officers?

Enough with trying to make them like us. they will never like us. And I don’t care. I want them to fear us so that they don’t attack us. That is all I want. And taht can be accomplished. We are wasting lives and money playing nation building or using our soldiers as diplomats. Enough.

Islam is not prepared to be reformed. It is not prepared to join civilization. I’m sick of pretending otherwise. I’m sick of the millions of disclaimers about all of teh “good” and “moderate” muslims. Sure, there are some. But not enough. They are not the majority of their religion and they have no influencein their religion. Islam spews world conquest, deciet and violence. It is in the text of the koran. Every moment that we pretend otherwise is a moment mainstream islam is winning the greater war (let’s not pretend it is “radical” – the majority of islam is preached and practiced this way, meaning it is mainstream. Moderates in islam are the radicals).

We have come to the point where we are constantly appeasing and offering homage to islam. Enough.

The very fact that we have to worry about violence because 30 idiots in florida want to burn the koran – and it becomes a national issue, proves that islam is winning by becoming the institutionalized religion of the west.

Posted by: Monkeytoe at September 08, 2010 01:35 PM

September 7, 2010 , 9:16PM Posted by | Afghanistan, Dhimmitude, Islam, Muslims, Sharia Law, Taliban | Comments Off on GEN Petraeus is Enabling Muslim Violence

Islam is an Oppressive, Totalitarian Ideology Which Should be Mocked and Ridiculed as Much as any Other Ideology

A great discussion in the comments in response to this post at Gateway Pundit: Florida Church Vows to Burn Korans On 9-11; Receives Death Threats (Video)

It is interesting to note many people in the comments who come across as dhimmis and prove the point that Islam is not a “religion of peace”. If it were, then there would be no reason to worry about the safety of the members of this church, correct? Christians and Jews and Mormons are insulted every single day all across the nation in print media reports, in TV media reports, in movies, in TV shows, in songs and by liberal politicians. All this is done without worry of violence. Yet, no one dares to say anything even midly critical of Islam, despite the fact that every liberal claims that Islam is a “religion of peace”. If it were so, then Islam would be mocked, ridiculed and smeared equally. The fact that it is not is proof that Islam is not peaceful at all.

The fact is that were this church to announce that it were holding a “burn Mein Kampf day”, no one would care. “Burn the Book of Mormon Day”? No one would care. “Burn the American Flag Day”? No one would care. “Burn the Jewish Flag Day”? No one would care. But, since they are insulting a liberal PC protected class, there is “outrage”. Pathetic.

Now, while I may not completely agree with this church’s chosen way to show their disgust with Islam (which I share), I think they prove 2 great points. (1) They show that Islam is not a “religion of peace” at all, what with the threats of violence directed their way in response to this. (2) They expose the hypocrisy of liberals, who never have a problem mocking, ridiculing and insulting every other religion on the planet, save for Islam.

I also agree with the person in the comments who noted that we are in a war. And yes, it is a war against the totalitarian political ideology of Islam, regardless of the people who are too PC-ified to admit it. During WWII, no one would have cared were people to burn copies of Hitler’s Mein Kampf, burn literature about NAZIism or burn literature about Japan’s religion of Shintoism. No one in their right mind would come to the defense of oppressive, totalitarian ideologies. Yet, 9 years after the worst Islamic terrorist attack on American soil in history, people are still defending the oppressive, totalitarian ideology of Islam. Pathetic.

Some of the comments with which I agree wholeheartedly:

Andreas K.
August 21st, 2010 | 6:09 am | #17

Burning Old Glory is fine. Burning American citizens is fine. But burning the one book that has more hatred inside than Mein Kampf is bad?

Without the koran there wouldn’t have been 9-11. Yes, it’s that simple.

Maybe this action isn’t in the best spirit of Christianity. Maybe, I don’t know, and frankly I don’t even care.

It’s time that the west strikes back.

How long are we going to take the abuse coming from the mohammedans? Look into Europe, I dare you. Mohammedans just need to pout at whatever they want and the media and the politicians double over hell bent on making sure the screaming babies get whatever they want.

Saying something against that is racism and makes you a nazi in Europe these days.

Why do you think Geert Wilders is becoming more and more popular, all across Europe?

Because more and more people in Europe are sick and tired of this pre-emptive surrender. Because more and more people in Europe are sick and tired of islam. Yes, despite the media and our politicians trying to sell us the fairy tale of a moderate islam people are rallying against islam.

Burn the koran?

Why not? What makes it so special? Why shouldn’t we burn it? Out of respect? Respect for what? Respect for a fascist ideology that hides behind the shield of religion? An ideology that, without this shield, would be banned right away in all civilized countries?

Burn it I say. This book deserves no respectful treatment. It’s as vile and full of hatred as Mein Kampf.

And Mein Kampf is banned in Germany and Austria…

Andreas K.
August 21st, 2010 | 6:27 am | #26

Jerry, the koran represents only one thing: kill the infidels where you find them. That’s in it. That’s the order. That’s what every mohammedan must do. Why? Because Mohammed, who is considered to be the perfect human being in islamic mythology, wrote it down. Because the bloodythirsty idol called allah told him so.

If supporting burning something like that makes me intolerant, so be it. Then I’m intolerant. And I don’t care. Islam is intolerant to the bone. Islam is hatred on a level worse than the Nazis. Why should I be tolerant to that?

By the way. Faith and believe? That’s no argument against burning it. There were people who prayed to Hitler. Not for him. To him. There were people in Nazi Germany BELIEVING that Hitler was second coming of Jesus. It was their FAITH.

As for calling islam “religion”… don’t make me laugh.

Andreas K.
August 21st, 2010 | 6:33 am | #27

Arch
August 21st, 2010 | 6:25 am | #24

Although I have no respect for islam as a religion/political system, it’s just as sacrilegious to burn a koran as it is to put a crucifix in a jar of urine. I consider burning the American flag highly offensive. People who act in this manner do not gain respect; they lose it.

Uhm, you do realize that the leftsits and mohammedans don’t respect any of us in the first place, right? So what’s there to lose?

Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

If they could they would kill all of us right now, even without burning that stupid book.

Why? Because we’re infidels. We are already committing the worst possible crime under sharia law: we refuse to follow allah. That crime is worse than murder, worse than rape, worse than genocide.

It’s sacrilegious? I piss on islam. I piss in the koran. Now what? What’s the islamic moon deity going to do about it? Nothing.

Tolerance is a bad thing. Look at the roots of the word. Latin for “to endure”. Sorry, I’m tired of enduring. It’s time to strike back and speak with them in the only language they understand: force.

Andreas K.
August 21st, 2010 | 6:37 am | #31

Let me add this:

Most of you people don’t see the “joy” islamic “enrichment”. I see it on a daily basis. And I’m sick and tired of it. Every day it’s on the news. Mohammedans assaulting our police officers. Mohammedans raping our women. Mohammedans murdering our people. Mohammedans stealing our money. And when we say something against it, the media and the leftist are all over us screaming “racist!” and “nazi!”

Our crime rates are exploding, thanks to them. But we have to be tolerant. We have to live with it. We have to endure it.

And this has been going for years.

My patience is slowly but steadily coming to an end.

Come to Europe and see it with your own eyes.

You’ll have a different point of view afterwards.

Andreas K.
August 21st, 2010 | 6:40 am | #33

Arch
August 21st, 2010 | 6:37 am | #30

Andreas K:

Stopping the building of this mosque would be the best revenge here. They care about that.

Then the media and the leftists will scream “racist!” again and everyone will be quick to make sure the mohammedan crybabies will get what they want.

It’s happening here on a daily basis.

Take the Swiss ban on minarettes. The majority of the Swiss people was for it and at once the islamic world screamed murder and the rest of Europe quickly joined them.

Talk I hear from the UK and the Netherlands speaks already of armed resistance. Yep, in the liberal Netherlands a growing number of liberal Dutch people are thinking of picking up arms against this nonsense. Same in the UK. Similar things I hear from Germany where secret police reports leaked to the public suggest civil war, thanks to the mohammedans.

But let’s be tolerant, eh?

Andreas K.
August 21st, 2010 | 6:43 am | #34

Granny
August 21st, 2010 | 6:39 am | #32

Wading, pacifists allowed 12 million people to be slaughtered during WWII for the crime of being born “other.” Good “Christians”, most of them were.

And then there were those who put on their armor and went to war to stop it. . . .

Something tells me that the heroes who did their little bit to end the abominations of Hitler have a much better welcome waiting them than those who wrung their hands & pretended not to see.

Granny, that was a direct hit.

Pacifism has never stopped fascists. Chamberlain went all pacifist on Hitler, what was the result?

It allowed Hitler to build up his military might and to occupy two sovereign nations before the war even started.

Pacifism works only if everyone’s a pacifist.

A mohammedan following Mohammed’s orders won’t be impressed by it. He’ll just kill you and rape your wife and daughter, after which he’d enslave them.

Granny
August 21st, 2010 | 6:53 am | #38

Expat, that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. At least this week. Not taking an action because you think it will give the muslims cause to complain virtually guarantees that you’ll be bowing to Mecca before you can spit. If they do not have “cause” to complain, they will find cause and if they cannot find it they will invent it as they have done innumerable times previously. If you don’t understand that, then you understand nothing at all.

Robert
August 21st, 2010 | 7:01 am | #43

This ideology is NOT a religion, it is a totalitarian regime of world domination. The terrorists are the front-line soldiers, receiving widespread financial and theological support. The rest submit to the dictates and profess piety while murder and mayhem are waged on behalf of world domination in their name.

This tyranny would only permit religions to exist as subservient, second-class citizens, and paying extra taxes.

To Wading Across, it seems as if you are not only preaching pacifism, but trying mightily to convince others to be so as well.

We’re all well aware of the Christian message of tolerance and good faith. Do that for too long, and you end up in bondage, or dead.

Ken
August 21st, 2010 | 7:02 am | #44

Arch
August 21st, 2010 | 6:25 am | #24
There is a group of people who can stop this outrage in its tracks – Union Labor.

Labor unions by definition hold out for more pay, they will eventually build it. Labor unions support the democrat party, who in turn support the moslems and sharia law. Don’t put any faith in the unions to do the right thing, they’ll disappoint you.

We all need to fight this attack on whatever front is available to us. This 911 victory hamosque is no different than a dog pissing and marking its territory.

If the moslems get their way burning flags will be the least of our problems.

Granny, thank you for your insight.

JR Dogman
August 21st, 2010 | 7:06 am | #45

This is a great idea. Yes, it’s a crude gesture to burn Korans; but Islam is hardly a refined faith. The majority of its followers are neither respectful nor tolerant of those of other faiths, and so they do not deserve our kind treatment.

As for the rare “moderate” Muslims (isn’t it sick that there’s such a term in common use? Sick, that we get excited when we hear a Muslim come out and call a terrorist organization a terrorist organization), I feel for them. It would be wonderful if Islam could be reformed as they hope, but I have my doubts, as for such to happen, Muslims worldwide would have to repudiate much of the Koran and the Hadiths. I myself am an agnostic; I practice no religion. But I know faith is important to most people. So, if moderate Muslims seek to maintain a relationship with God, perhaps they might find fulfillment by converting to Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, or Buddhism — to any religion that does not divide the world into a House of Believers and a House of War.

Though in fact, a lot of moderate Muslims are already doing just that. We may not hear about it much, but the rumblings are there: conversions out of Islam are on the rise, and the trend looks only to increase. And no wonder: It must be a terrible burden for many Muslims, to feel obliged to hate and wage eternal war against non-Muslims in the name of God; and they must feel such tremendous relief, when at last they find a gentler, more personal and spiritual way to worship.

The Elector of Saxony
August 21st, 2010 | 8:03 am | #58

“Come to Europe and see it with your own eyes.”

Andreas, our media hides the situation in Britain and in Europe from us. During the Islamic insurrection in France, the media here reported “unemployed French youths are burning cars in the suburbs of Paris”. The murder of Theo Van Gogh was only reported on through the blog communities, and of course, anytime Geert Wilders or the BNP are mentioned…you guessed it. Nazis.

Individual Americans are smart, but collectively we are quite stupid. We are already allowing our borders to be overrun in an invasion that is destabilizing the economies of our Southwestern states, turning vast swaths of America into 3rd world hellholes that resemble Somalia today more than they do Houston or Los Angeles of 30 years ago. Yet, almost half of us mumble some nonsense about fairness and equality, and hope and pray that things will get better, and if they don’t? Well, we’ll get a taco while Rome burns.

Islam is coming in what can only be described as the second arm of a pincer movement, and yet even our conservative party wants to mouth the platitudes of “religion of peace”, equality, justice, diversity, freedom of religion, blah blah blah.

Our media is helping by hiding the fact that Islam is imposing its will on Europe and Britain so that we won’t insist upon stopping it here. I don’t care what my Lefts masters say, Islam is a barbaric, backward, vile tribe of people who should be kept away from us by any means necessary.

Granny
August 21st, 2010 | 8:39 am | #65

Chip, this is not just about spreading the Gospel. This is about your right to even have a Gospel to spread. This is, in fact, a war.

All during WWII, hundreds of thousands of our Jewish brethren made no attempt to lift a finger in self defense, in the name of these very same principles. It wasn’t just Chamberlain who tried to appease Hitler. It was Jewish communities all over Europe. It was people right here in the USA.

Our Founding Fathers & Mothers did not appease the British King. They fought for what they believed. The fighters in the Warsaw Ghetto, those who rebelled at Sobibor, the Bielski brothers, who walked into ghettos and rescued more Jews directly under the noses of Hitler’s minions that even Schindler saved – they all fought for what they believed in. And in every single case there were those to say that this was against religion, it wasn’t “correct”, that is was useless or crass or a stunt. And yet, they won.

There comes a time when you must not only pay lip service to what you believe, you must lay your property, your reputation and even your life on the line and fight for it. To do otherwise is to deny your belief. Our founders knew this. Those who won through in WWII knew this. Every generation must win freedom anew.

The members of this little backwater church have decided that their time has come to stand and fight. Every single time that we as a society allow ourselves to be cowed & silenced we deny the very principles on which we were built.

Gail F
August 21st, 2010 | 8:51 am | #71

Sorry, this is an idiotic thing to do. “Burn a Koran Day”??? Give me a break! That’s not free speech, that’s deliberate provocation, inciting unrest and inviting an attack.

Like all fights, the fight against the expansion of Islam requires prudence. This isn’t a prudent act it’s a STUPID one.

Granny
August 21st, 2010 | 8:58 am | #73

Sorry Gail – virtually ALL political speech is “free speech”. Even if it is provactive. In fact, political speech is the reason we have Freedom of Speech.

StrngernFiction
August 21st, 2010 | 9:25 am | #80

Wow there is so much to say regarding this topic. One of the most interesting discussions I’ve come across on the net.

For starters, this is a great example of how widespread the brainwashing is. To read some of these comments you’d think that Islam IS a religion of peace. Ah, but they don’t call it a cancer for no reason.

As would be the case for burning one of the Bamster’s autobiographies, the only legitimate argument for not burning the Koran, if these folks are truly aware of the consequences and still want to follow through with this, is that it would amount to bad PR and thus hurt our side and help the enemy (mooslims and the left). That is the ONLY reason, and that point is probably worth debating.

But it is my opinion that we are long past the point where we should be taking stands based on our principles (and like many others here have said islam is an obamination), letting the chips fall where they may and the sides be formed. So if these folks have their eyes open and want to take this courageous action, more power to them.

redc1c4
August 21st, 2010 | 9:31 am | #83

i don’t understand why anyone is worried about this event causing a problem, let alone some sort of violent response…..

after all, islam is a religion of peace.

bg
August 21st, 2010 | 9:50 am | #88

++

we are damned if we do, damned if we don’t..

we had better wake up & take sides..

fact is we cannot see the forest through the trees..

Islamists burn Churches, Bibles
& Christians around the Globe..

self defense & the turn the other cheek myth

There is a difference in giving up personal
revenge and confronting evil in self defense.

foreigners no longer come to assimilate themselves to the American way,
they come to demand that America not only assimilate to their way, but accommodate & assist them in their struggle to dominate US..

we must defend ourselves against evil, not assist
it by turning the other cheek against ourselves..

StrngernFiction
August 21st, 2010 | 10:32 am | #110

Granny and Andreas K, you’ve taken some real nice cuts on this thread. Here are some of the highlights for those who might have just tuned in:

Without the koran there wouldn’t have been 9-11. Yes, it’s that simple. – Andreas K

Why shouldn’t we burn it? Out of respect? Respect for what? Respect for a fascist ideology that hides behind the shield of religion? An ideology that, without this shield, would be banned right away in all civilized countries? – Andreas K

By the way. Faith and believe? That’s no argument against burning it. There were people who prayed to Hitler. Not for him. To him. There were people in Nazi Germany BELIEVING that Hitler was second coming of Jesus. It was their FAITH. – Andreas K

Something tells me that the heroes who did their little bit to end the abominations of Hitler have a much better welcome waiting them than those who wrung their hands & pretended not to see. – Granny

Pacifism works only if everyone’s a pacifist. -Andreas K

Not taking an action because you think it will give the muslims cause to complain virtually guarantees that you’ll be bowing to Mecca before you can spit. If they do not have “cause” to complain, they will find cause and if they cannot find it they will invent it as they have done innumerable times previously. If you don’t understand that, then you understand nothing at all. – Granny

Chip, this is not just about spreading the Gospel. This is about your right to even have a Gospel to spread. This is, in fact, a war. – Granny

There comes a time when you must not only pay lip service to what you believe, you must lay your property, your reputation and even your life on the line and fight for it. – Granny

Every single time that we as a society allow ourselves to be cowed & silenced we deny the very principles on which we were built. – Granny

bg
August 21st, 2010 | 10:35 am | #111

++

the enemy of civilization, as we have been repetitively warned by both anti-Islamist Muslims & non-Muslims in the know is Political Islam aka: Sharia Law… Islamism is a religious cult of POLITICS…

[Jasser founded AIFD in the wake of the 9/11 attacks in order to provide a Muslim American voice that would genuinely advocate and defend the founding principles of the U.S. Constitution. He has taken the fight against radical Islam to heart and sees it as a responsibility of all “true” Muslims. Where many U.S.-based Islamic organizations, such as CAIR and the Islamic Society of North America, claim to support the U.S. Constitution but provide dodgy answers and shoddy excuses for terrorism when the rubber meets the road, Dr. Jasser’s AIFD is based on the founding principles of the United States. Where CAIR’s rhetoric tends to create a tension between Americans and its Muslim members, the rhetoric of Jasser and AIFD refers to Americans as an “us” and not a “them.”

“I have always looked upon myself, long before 9-11, as a Jeffersonian Muslim, if you will,” Dr. Jasser answers when asked about his identification as a Muslim. “Along with the ideas of liberty as embodied in the works of our founding fathers, naturally emanating from that is a deep antipathy for Islamism (political Islam), salafism, jihadism, governmental sharia, and the global collectivist movement of the Muslim Brotherhood.”

Terms such as “moderate,” “secular,” and “radical” are innately controversial as any group is able to contort them to mean what they want. For example, Jasser posits, the term “moderate” has become synonymous with being non-violent or anti-terrorism. But this is an oversimplification that blinds Americans to the very political ideologies — which he identifies as “Islamism” — that are the cogs and gears of terrorism.

“I know everyone is looking for an easy label to know the ‘good Muslim’ from the ‘bad Muslim,’” Jasser continues, “but … I believe that the ‘anti-Islamist’ or at least ‘non-Islamist’ Muslims are on our side and the pro-Islamist Muslims, those who believe in the Islamic state and governmental sharia, are not on our side but on the side of political Islam.”]

rtwt..

anti-Islamist Muslims have been reaching out, they have been, and still are warning US… unfortunately, the powers that be are not only silencing them, but for all intents & purposes, are in communion with Islamists against them…

UPDATE 22 AUG 2010: Great article by Doug Giles regarding feminist active smears of Sarah Palin — whose life is the epitome of feminist ideals — while they are silent on Islamic Shari’a Law, which is the absolute antithesis of feminist principles:

Nope, the fems’ fixation remains on Palin. Palin is the threat. Palin is the She Devil. Palin is the one who gets the nasty jabs — and not Islam and the potential spread of Sharia from sea to shining sea.

I know what you fembots are thinking: Sharia can’t happen here, right? Cha? Yes, we’d never allow Muslims to take us back to Bedrock legislatively. And I’m equally sure that’s what our snaggle-toothed feminist cousins in the UK thought right up until September 2008.

Facts be damned, however. For the feminists, the menacing foe they have to stave off remains Sarah and not Sharia.

Last time I checked, liberal lassies, Mrs. Palin does not believe that …

– Women are inferior to men.

– Women should have fewer rights and responsibilities than Larry the Cable Guy.

– Women count for one-half of a dude in giving evidence in a court of law.

– Women should be horse whipped if they ever make their husband feel like a dork.

– Victoria’s Secret Miraculous Bra (with extreme level 5 cleavage) makes God angry.

– Women can’t say squat in regard to whom they’ll marry, what they’ll wear, where they’ll live, or whether or not they can divorce their cheating and/or abusive husband.

– Girls can be wed beginning at the ripe old age of frickin’ nine.

– Women should be cool with hubby having a couple of hoochies or female slaves on the side.

– Women, on the pretext of “honor,” should be locked up, isolated and unable to have a girls’ night out at Mango’s on Ocean Drive.

Yep, last time I checked, Miss Sarah ain’t down with the above, but you know who is? I’ll tell you (because your lack of Ground Zero Mosque angst is auguring for the return to the cave man era): the Crapslinger Extraordinaire, Ground Zero’s grand zero, male chauvinist Imam Abtool Rauf.

Another great article today in the American Thinker by Sally Humhorth: Islam is the New Communism

Paul Hsieh wrote an excellent article about America’s weakness in regards to the war against terrorists. However, he claimed that the mosque is distracting us from the real issue of Iran’s nuclear weapons program. I respectfully disagree. The real issue is that we are fighting a war with Islam. The mosque, rather than distracting America, has brought her full attention to it. [ … ]

This is has been a difficult road, because Americans are benevolent and naïve concerning Islam. They are used to freedom of religion and they find it hard to condemn one. And that is precisely the problem, Americans see Islam as only a religion. It is not just a religion, it is also a sophisticated, detailed political ideology with the expressed goal of taking over the entire world by any means at its disposal, even if it includes lying and killing. Americans need to think of it as a social/political ideology, but they are so used to separating religion from politics (which was a first at the time of our country’s founding) that they keep giving Islam the benefit of the doubt.

Frank Langan, site superintendent from Queens working at ground zero, says he is on the fence on the matter. When construction workers started to protest working on the mosque, he made a statement that is typical of people who are undecided about this issue, “It’s a tough debate. I sympathize with workers’ position, but at the same time, you can’t single out all Muslims because of a small number of terrorists.” That would be like saying, you can’t single out all Communists because of a small number of Communists. They are all Communists if they subscribe to the Communist ideology, and just like Communism has an ideology, so does Islam. Any Muslim who is truly innocent, must renounce Islam like other courageous Muslims such as Ayaan Hirsi Ali or Wafa Sultan. Not to do so, means that he still considers us as the enemy and supports the downfall of the United States.

Separation of church and state is something we take for granted. Islam does not separate the two. And Islam is the new Communism.

The always excellent Andrew McCarthy has a great take on this issue as well, in his latest article (via BigPeace): Which Islam Will Prevail in America? — That is the real question at hand in the Ground Zero mosque debate.

The real battle for religious freedom lurks beneath the Ground Zero mosque controversy. It is sadly ironic that our public debate presents the mosque proponents as the partisans of liberty: That includes everyone from imam Feisal Rauf, the project’s sharia-touting sponsor, to President Obama, Mayor Bloomberg, and the rest of the Islamist-smitten Left, to the GOP’s own anti-anti-terrorist wing. Yet, wittingly or not, when they champion this mosque and its sponsors, it is the agenda of an alien and authoritarian Islam that they champion — an Islam against which many American Muslims chafe.

When it comes to liberty, no one in this society has been given a wider berth than the Islamists, the purveyors of this authoritarian Islam, which is the mainstream Islam of the Middle East. Their vise grip on the American Muslim community has been cinched for two decades by the government, the media, and the academy. For our post-American ruling class, “Islamic outreach” means prostituting themselves for Saudi largesse; it means putting the “moderate” label on the Muslim Brotherhood — the Saudi-backed saboteurs whose American operatives boldly promise to “eliminate and destroy Western Civilization from within.”

The victims of this lethal charade include American Muslims. They, too, crave religious liberty and Western enlightenment. Our elites abandon them to the sharia-mongers. That freedom destroyers have been allowed to pose as freedom defenders ought to tell mosque opponents something: We have done a poor job of explaining the stakes.

[ … ] By contrast, American Muslims grasp that 9/11 was an attack on their country, too. Their emerging leaders, such as Zuhdi Jasser and Steven Schwartz, have started organizations — respectively, the American Islamic Forum for Democracy and the Center for Islamic Pluralism — that promote freedom and offer Muslims an escape from the Brotherhood’s clutches. As Messrs. Jasser and Schwartz relate, American Muslims understand the significance of Ground Zero to our nation, to the families of those who were slaughtered, and to the enemy against whom we are still fighting. They know that, in contrast to the innate intolerance of sharia states, the United States opens its arms to people of all faiths, including Muslims. Like Ms. Manji, they are struggling, against daunting opposition, to forge an Islam that embraces Western values, that reveres religious faith but denies it temporal authority.

The Ground Zero mosque controversy is not about religious liberty for Muslims. It is about which Islam will thrive in the United States: the one that is fighting Americans, or the one American Muslims are fighting for.

August 21, 2010 , 1:04PM Posted by | Christianity, Dhimmitude, Ground Zero Mosque, Islam, Islamofascism, Muslims | 8 Comments

Catholic Pedophiles vs Muslim Terrorists

The liberal defense of the Ground Zero Victory Mosque is getting continuously more and more mind-numbingly ridiculous. And the liberal and MF-ing media defense of Obama’s support for the mosque is even moreso.

Case in point: in defending Obama against the public perception that he is a Muslim, the MF-ing media is now saying that he is even more a Christian than Ronald Reagan or George W. Bush:

The irony here: The big irony of this story: President Obama is more religious than Reagan or H.W. Bush ever was; in fact, he gets Bible verses sent to his blackberry EVERY DAY.

As a commenter at AoSHQ sarcasticly stated:

I get Viagra spam sent to my e-mail address every day, too. Doesn’t make me a pr0n star…

Posted by: Drumwaster at August 19, 2010 01:21 PM

Heh.

It really is no surprise that more and more Americans suspect that Obama is a Muslim. He has continuously mocked Christians and Jews; his entire background is full of associations with anti-Semites, Islamists and those who support Islam; and the only “church” he has ever attended was a Black Liberation Theology “church” which was/is anti-Semitic, anti-American and pro-Islam. Not to mention, Obama has made numerous statements of his admiration for and support of Islam and Muslims. As I stated on my Facebook today, imagine this scenario:

Imagine if Sarah Palin had said the following:

“I consider it part of my responsibility as Vice President of the United Stated to fight against negative stereotypes of Christianity wherever they appear”.

Think the MF-ing media would turn that statement into a major scandal? Damn right they would.

But, she never has stated anything like that. However, Barack Hussein Obama has stated the following:

“I consider it part of my responsibility as President of the United Stated to fight against negative stereotypes of Islam wherever they appear”.

And the MF-ing media said nothing about it.

Well, I actually could be wrong there. The MF-ing media probably did say something about it, but I’d bet anything that they addressed it in order to defend Obama on his statement. But, I would also feel 100% comfortable betting that the MF-ing media would not give similar treatment to Sarah Palin — or any conservative politician — were she to give a similar statement about Christianity, Catholicism, Judaism or even Mormonism.

And that’s because there is a despicable double-standard with liberals when it comes to religion. They abhor Christianity, Catholicism and Judaism — and, to a lesser extent, Mormonism, about which they only get upset when Mitt Romney comes on the scene or with regards to Proposition 8 in California — and make every effort to lie about, smear, mock, ridicule and spew vitriol at these religions at every chance they get. However, when it comes to Islam, they are 100% in support of this despicable, intolerant, totalitarian cult.

I started thinking about this while reading this post by Ace at AoSHQ: Email Response to a Rightie Suggesting We Support the Ground Zero Mosque

Has there been built a single Muslim museum of 9/11 atrocities with the message that this was wrong? Have there been powerful ecumenicals circulated of the Muslim religion taking any responsibillity or showing any shame for this?

I do not believe this happened in a vacuum: This happened because, as we’ve seen time and time again, defending terrorism, or explaining the NUANCES of murder, is far too common in Muslim circles. This creates an atmosphere of social acceptance and encouragement of terrorism.

Are most Muslims terrorists? Of course not. But, speaking among themselves, would most Muslims continue insisting this is a far more “complicated” issue than we in the West can comprehend?

I believe the answer is “Yes.” And yes, I think a majority. When clerics appear on tv and refuse to forthrightly and unambiguously repudiate terrorism, preferring instead to give a qualified statement of disfavor followed by a list of reasons why the West is to blame for our own murders, I have to imagine that these clerics are not free-lancing, but instead offering the basic sentiment of their congregation.

This Ground Zero Mosque has nothing within it to *disclaim* a glorification of 9/11. There is no museum for the dead; no exhibit showing the bloody fruit of religious extremism. It permits itself to be taken two ways — to the West, they will say “moderation” and “tolerance,” but will the more excitable elements within the religion get that message? Well, I don’t think so — because there’s nothing, nothing in these plans to expressly repudiate that.

The message remains open, open to differing interpretations, and I believe that’s by design — just as Imam Rauf’s nuanced views of organized murder are open to differing interpretations, one designed to placate the West, the other designed to offer succor and moral uplift to killers.

Yasser Arafat did this all the time, offering one message in English for his patrons in the West, and another one for his supporters in the terror cells of Palestine.

Enough, enough.

Ace is exactly correct. However, compare how liberals reacted to the pedophile scandal within the Catholic church and how they treat the entire Catholic Church to how liberals react to Islamic terrorism and how they treat Islam and Muslims in general.

With regards to the Catholic church pedophile scandal, at most about 10% of priests were involved in the scandal. People were rightly outraged not only with the actions of the priests themselves, but also with the lousy way the Catholic Church handled the issue. As a result, the Catholic Church as a whole was smeared and all Catholic priests were branded guilty by association based on this scandal.

Similarly, with regards to Islamic terrorism, at most about 10% of Muslims are terrorists. However, in contrast to the MF-ing media and liberal reaction to the Catholic priest pedophile scandal, they exhibited no outrage with Islam nor broad-brushing of all Muslims as terrorists. This despite the fact that Muslim leaders worldwide acted in a similarly poor fashion as the Catholic church in response to their scandal. In fact, instead of taking responsibility for the actions, Muslims leaders worldwide actually claimed victimhood and smeared anyone who criticized them as being irrational, even creating the phony term “Islamophobia”. Imagine if Catholic leaders had claimed victimhood and then deemed everyone who was smearing them after the pedophile scandal as “Catholiphobes”. Think they would have gotten away with that? Not on your life (and rightly so). Yet, this is exactly what Muslms and Islam are getting away with thanks to Liberals.

What I don’t understand at all is the fact that Islam is the intolerant, human rights violating, woman-oppressing religion that the liberals wrongly smear Christianity and Catholicism as being. Yet, liberals are in full support of Islam and have a seething hatred for Christianity and Catholicism. It makes absolutely no sense.

Ironically enough, there actually should be the terms “Christianphobe” and/or “Catholiphobe” to describe liberals, as their fear of these religions is ridiculously irrational. Meanwhile, “Islamophobe” is akin to the Left’s favorite discussion-stopping term “racist!” It is simply thrown around to shut down anyone who dares to expose the evils of the cult of Islam. A cult that includes subjugation and opression of women, “honor” killings, female genital mutilation, killing of apostates and opression and killing of homosexuals.

So liberals have an irrational hatred of a religion — Christianity — whose ideology welcomes women and homosexuals into its congregation, but simply stands against promiscuous sex and against redefining marriage to include same-sex couples. Meanwhile, liberals respect and celebrate a religion — Islam — whose ideology believes in opressing women and killing homosexuals.

Maybe that’s why liberalism/progressivism/socialism/Marxism and Islam get along so well… they are all backasswards ideologies.

Once again, Ace states it well:

What it’s about is the utter shamelessness of this. The utter refusal for anyone involved in this grotesquerie to exhibit the sense of decorum and taste that even animals possess and evaluate what impact their designs may have on other people, including the direct victims of radical, triumphant Islam.

Shamelessness.

I would suggest that Cordoba House fixate itself less on selling Islam to the West and more on selling Western values of anti-terrorism, render-unto-Caesar, and tolerance to Islam.

Were they actually doing that, I would support this — wholeheartedly!

But they’re not. Next to a hole in the ground created by Muslim excess and Islamic equivocation over the rightfulness of murdering the infidel, they want to erect and advertisement — not for peace, not for understanding, not for dialogue, not for anti-terrorism — but just for Islam.

And they didn’t bother to ask if anyone would have a problem with this, and that’s because they never cared. It was never about that — it was about, just as suspected, erecting a trimuphal tower to the might of Islam.

And they didn’t ask about that, and now that people have — since they weren’t asked in private, we have to tell them in public — they still don’t care.

So don’t tell me this is about tolerance and moderation and building bridges.

This is about a shameless attempt to grab up a piece of property on the cheap, a piece of property in downtown Manhattan that is only on the market at all because of the actions of some Muslims, and the shamelessness of other Muslims in plunking down cash of dubious sourcing to purchase the land at jet-fuel fire-sale prices.

Exactly.

This commenter summarizes the issue it well:

For Kat (and liberals) history begins when they wake up each morning.

You see Kat…. the headchoppers have been roaming the globe targeting women and children in marketplaces for over 30 years, with impunity.

And US citizens have lived peacefully with Muslims for 30 years. They know they have nothing to fear from us, if we were calm on 9/12, and calm for the last 10 years… they know that Americans are no threat to them or their mosques.

This provocation at GZ is a deliberate attempt to desecrate our war dead…. they started this…… not us.

Posted by: pam at August 19, 2010 02:54 PM

A-freaking-men to this:

They will do this.

Because they do not care.

Because our feelings, our sensitivities, are irrelevant.

They will use the freedom of a Western philosophy that they largely treat with disdain as a justification to do the shameless, and demand our tolerance.

But one good thing will hopefully come out of this. Once you bite that apple, and proclaim proudly, “I do not care whom is hurt, or whom I insult, it is my RIGHT!” you cannot go back. You proudly proclaim that you have the *right* to be as big an a**hole as you want and gosh darn it you are going to do it, suddenly when people treat you rudely you have no argument, no appeal to sensibility and shame.

Because tomorrow, the next day and the next, more of those little minor grievances to Islam, that really amount to nothing, that many in the religion wail about without end, they will occur.

Denial of official recognition of Sharia law.
Artist renderings like Draw Mohammad day.
Literature like the Satanic Verses.
Comedy like episode 201.

And when you wail, and cry about the sanctity of your religious beliefs and make that appeal for sensitivity. An intemperate mass will point at that building and say “F#ck You!”

For once you have given up your shame, you cannot demand it from others. So go ahead, bite that apple, and watch your perfect little garden disintegrate; open that box, and loose the trappings of a free society upon yourself in earnest for the first time.

Who’s with me in asking, that Comedy Central, in order to promote tolerant and peaceful outreach to the Muslim community, re-air episode 201 without censorship? I’m in the mood for a good laugh at Islam’s expense right about now.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at August 19, 2010 03:10 PM

UPDATE 20 AUG 2010: Great article at The American Thinker on this topic. (Even better that it references one of my all-time favorite shows, Seinfeld. heh)

Of course, none of that makes any sense — and that becomes clearer and clearer to more and more Americans under the microscope of the Ground Zero Mosque issue. And it’s not the mosque issue alone, of course. As theorized by J.R. Dunn, that could simply be the tipping point.

There’s the skipping of the Boy Scout’s 100th Anniversary Ceremony. There’s the golf instead of church almost every Sunday. There’s the “clinging to their guns and religion” comment. There’s the anti-Israel comments and policies. And on and on.

So now we have a president haunted by the idea that he is really a Muslim — and not a Christian at all. How delicious it is that his blatantly secular liberal supporters are totally impotent at fighting this battle for him — given that so many Americans take faith seriously?

And going back to Wright’s Trinity Church will not help. There will be no Jesus Cred available there. Listen to the tapes or order the books. You will simply find Black Liberation Theology and Marxism and so on. Jesus? Not so much.

So Americans will likely continue to think of Obama as a Muslim in increasing numbers. But hey — “not that there’s anything wrong with that.”

August 19, 2010 , 3:42PM Posted by | Dhimmitude, Islam, Liberalism, Marxism, Muslims | Comments Off on Catholic Pedophiles vs Muslim Terrorists

New Yorkers (and Americans) Don’t Need an Education on Islam, Muslim Nations Do

Great post by Jan LaRue at The American Thinker regarding the Islamic Mosque being built near the site of the worst Islamic terrorist attack on American soil, Ground Zero. Jan makes a great argument in “The Manhattan Mosque and Women” that this supposed “community center” for “understanding” has more of a need in every nation in the Muslim World (ie Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Indonesia) where the barbaric practice of Islamic shari’a law (‘honor’ killings, subjugation of women, murdering of homosexuals, etc) still takes place today.

Rauf insists that “[r]ather than fear Shariah law, we should understand what it actually is. Then we can encourage Muslim countries to make the changes that achieve the essence of fairness and justice that are at the root of Islam.”

Who really thinks that bin Laden and the Taliban are primed to receive an education in Islam from “the Great Satan”?

If Rauf is so captivated by America’s system of laws, he should take his education act on the road to the Islamic-controlled nations and terrorist states whose barbaric practices make him “cringe.” If he’s serious about “[a]dvocating for human rights, including higher standards for the treatment of women,” as he claims, he should open his mosque where women actually need “higher standards” of treatment. Take for example Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, and Iran — please.

Instead of wasting critical time “educating” Americans on the true teaching and values of Islam, he should educate those Muslims whom he says have “hijacked” its meaning in the name of terrorism and human rights abuses. How about focusing his efforts on those who are committinghonorkillings, which they believe is their duty under Islam?

How about Rauf having a face-to-face seminar for the Taliban wing of Shariah, educating them that sawing off a woman’s nose and ears is an extremist distortion of Islam? The face on Time is the face of Afghan women who fear that the U.S. with its Judeo-Christian based laws will abandon them.

And then there’s Iran, where Ashraf Kalhori has been imprisoned for two years, awaiting burial up to her neck and stoning to death for the preposterous crime of committing adultery all by herself. There’s no mention of the suffering of Kalhori on the imam’s website, much less any effort by him to help her.

Here’s a thought. Rauf could turn his fleet of lawyers loose from litigating on behalf of his Manhattan mosque to file a brief on behalf of Kalhori in the Iranian court. The last time we checked, there aren’t any American women or girls about to be stoned by Americans.

While he’s at it, he could implore our Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to have the State Department do a tad more than just urge Iran to change its method of executing innocent women. Surely America’s self-proclaimed champion of women’s rights can take time from transporting the legalized slaughter of unborn women to other nations.

Since Rauf uses Jesus Christ to support the roots of “true” Islam, he ought to study the Master in action when He stopped a mob intent on stoning a woman allegedly “taken in adultery.” He did so by confronting them with the Mosaic Law they were perverting in their craven effort to trap Christ between a stone and a hard place. Christ stepped between the helpless woman and the mob. He didn’t waste His time and her life educating people far removed from the practice of stoning.

As a rejoinder to those who will no doubt point to non-Muslim men in America who’ve killed or maimed their wives and daughters, consider: The evil cowards may try to hide behind an insanity defense, but American law does not allow them to hide behind “honor” in the name of our God.

Jed Skillman brings up more great points in his American Thinker article “The Monument at Ground Zero“:

My point, rather, is this: Those who erected that statue intended the image of Columbus to reflect and honor the noble characteristics of Vision, Courage, and Resolve. They intended it to be viewed as symbol of the power of right idea and inspired enlightenment as a direct challenge to ignorance and superstition. And for quite a while, the statue of Columbus stood as a representation of those very things. But then we arrived at the era of postmodern Liberalism, and out of the classrooms and intellectual enclaves came political correctness, revisionist history, and the image of The Ugly American. Things changed, or were made to change. Immediately following World War II, there seemed to be a deep need in some to take a little of the shine off the U.S. The United States was no longer depicted as a beacon to mankind but as a plundering bully that needed to be cut down to size. To some in this country — and every year, hordes of them come out of the woodwork around October 12 — the image of Christopher Columbus was made to represent the exact opposite of Freedom, Enterprise, and the power of Mind.

Interesting, isn’t it, how a monument erected to noble ideals can be remade instead into a symbol of “genocide and oppression”?

Let us now consider another monument, recently approved by state and local leaders to be built in lower Manhattan, a block from the hole in the ground known as “Ground Zero.”

Less than nine years after the 9/11 attack — the “Day America Will Never Forget” — state and city officials in New York have cleared the way for a proposed fifteen-story mosque, or Islamic “culture center,” just paces away from the hole. While nothing has yet been built on the actual site of Ground Zero, the mosque zipped through zoning and landmark hearings untouched by city and state bureaucrats and unscathed by citizen protests. New York Mayor Richard Bloomberg and Democratic gubernatorial candidate Andrew Cuomo were both early supporters of the project. Much of official media sees nothing wrong or disrespectful about it. Words like “insensitive”, “tacky,” and “in poor taste” have had no place in the conversation, nor have words like “vile” and “obscene.” In the minds of our current officialdom, the issue is one of America’s lack of religious freedom and tolerance — and officialdom is all about tolerance of religion, don’t you know.

So, here it is: To the American Left, this mosque represents a gooey dose of feel-good inclusiveness. It provides a platform for them to lecture and talk down to the public on the subject of America’s perceived moral shortcomings while at the same time allowing them to act as enablers for a religion including many members who wish for the destruction of America. It’s a win/win.

Well, here’s what that mosque will truly represent: To Islamist fanatics, it will represent a victory over what they perceive as a corrupt and complacent America. To them, America is a “weak horse”; we can be had, and official approval of this mosque just nine years after the slaughter at this particular location serves as living proof.

But to us regular citizens, living in the burroughs, across the Hudson, or out here in flyover country, driving our seven-year-old cars and happy to have our families together, that mosque represents the dangerous fecklessness of the Left. It is another symptom of timidity when common sense is called for. It is the disease of the Arizona border issue spread to New York City. That mosque will stand as a testament for every modern liberal who never missed a chance to call Ronald Reagan a “warmonger” but finds Islam a “religion of peace.” Additionally, if actually built, it will be a testament to shortsighted Islamic overreach. Erected as a chip-on-the-shoulder challenge to the United States, it will sooner or later be knocked flat.

No one contemplating this building as they pass on their way to pay respects at Ground Zero will have to have lost loved ones that day to understand the meaning of that building. We all know that not just New York was attacked, but all of America. And we all will see this building as an insult to the three thousand people who were crushed or burned alive that September 11. This mosque, at fifteen stories tall, will memorialize two hundred souls per floor. And every brick, every stone will represent Progressive Liberalism’s astonishing preference to defend everyone else’s position, but not ours.

August 7, 2010 , 12:20PM Posted by | Dhimmitude, Ground Zero Mosque, Islam, Islamofascism, Jihad, Muslims, Sharia Law | Comments Off on New Yorkers (and Americans) Don’t Need an Education on Islam, Muslim Nations Do

“It is Your Future … Do Whatever You Can to Preserve It”

[Reposted — This is as true today as it was back when I originally posted this on another blog back in February of 2006.]

Please take the time to read this entire letter. I believe it is the best view of the current world situation I’ve read AND it is neither biased towards Conservatives or Liberals. Those who take the time to read it to the end, no matter what their political views, will come out with a better understanding of what our country has gone through and what it is going through today.

THE WORLD SITUATION: A LETTER TO MY SONS

This was written by a retired attorney, to his sons, May 19, 2004.

Dear Tom, Kevin, Kirby and Ted,

As your father, I believe I owe it to you to share some thoughts on the present world situation. We have over the years discussed a lot of important things, like going to college, jobs and so forth. But this really takes precedence over any of those discussions. I hope this might give you a longer term perspective that fewer and fewer of my generation are left to speak to.

To be sure you understand that this is not politically flavored, I will tell you that since Franklin D. Roosevelt, who led us through pre and WWII (1933 – 1945) up to and including our present President, I have without exception, supported our presidents on all matters of international conflict. This would include just naming a few in addition to President Roosevelt – WWII: President Truman – Korean War 1950; President Kennedy -Bay of Pigs (1961); President Kennedy – Vietnam (1961); [1] eight presidents (5 Republican & 4 Democrat) during the cold war (1945 – 1991); President Clinton’s strikes on Bosnia (1995) and on Iraq (1998). [2] So be sure you read this as completely non-political or otherwise you will miss the point.

Our country is now facing the most serious threat to its existence, as we know it, that we have faced in your lifetime and mine (which includes WWII). The deadly seriousness is greatly compounded by the fact that there are very few of us who think we can possibly lose this war and even fewer who realize what losing really means.

First, let’s examine a few basics:

1. When did the threat to us start? Many will say September 11th, 2001. The answer as far as the United States is concerned is 1979, 22 years prior to September 2001, with the following attacks on us:

Iran Embassy Hostages, 1979;
Beirut, Lebanon Embassy 1983;
Beirut, Lebanon Marine Barracks 1983;
Lockerbie, Scotland Pan-Am flight to New York 1988;
First New York World Trade Center attack 1993;
Dhahran, Saudi Arabia Khobar Towers Military complex 1996;
Nairobi, Kenya US Embassy 1998;
Dar es Salaam, Tanzania US Embassy 1998;
Aden, Yemen USS Cole 2000;
New York World Trade Center 2001;
Pentagon 2001.

(Note that during the period from 1981 to 2001 there were 7,581 terrorist attacks worldwide).

2. Why were we attacked? Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms. The attacks happened during the administrations of Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton and Bush 2. We can not fault either the Republicans or Democrats as there were no pro vocations by any of the presidents or their immediate predecessors, Presidents Ford or Carter.

3. Who were the attackers? In each case of attacks on US they were Muslims.

4. What is the Muslim population of the World? 25 percent

5. Isn’t the Muslim Religion peaceful? Hopefully, but that is really not material. There is no doubt that the predominately Christian population of Germany was peaceful, but under the dictatorial leadership of Hitler (who was also Christian), that made no difference. You either went along with the administration or you were eliminated. There were 5 to 6 million Christians killed by the Nazis for political reasons (including 7,000 Polish priests). Thus, almost the same number of Christians were killed by the Nazis, as the 6 million holocaust Jews who were killed by them, and we seldom heard of anything other than the Jewish atrocities. Although Hitler kept the world focused on the Jews, he had no hesitancy about killing anyone who got in his way of exterminating the Jews or of taking over the world – German, Christian or any others.

Same with the Muslim terrorists. They focus the world on the US, but kill all in the way – their own people or the Spanish, French or anyone else. [5]

The point here is that just like the peaceful Germans were of no protection to anyone from the Nazis, no matter how many peaceful Muslims there may be, they are no protection for us from the terrorist Muslim leaders and what they are fanatically bent on doing — by their own pronouncements — killing all of us infidels. I don’t blame the peaceful Muslims. What would you do if the choice was shut up or die?

6. So who are we at war with? There is no way we can honestly respond that it is anyone other than the Muslim terrorists. Trying to be politically correct and avoid verbalizing this conclusion can well be fatal. There is no way to win if you don’t clearly recognize and articulate who you are fighting.

So with that background, now to the two major questions:

1. Can we lose this war?
2. What does losing really mean?

If we are to win, we must clearly answer these two pivotal questions. We can definitely lose this war, and as anomalous as it may sound, the major reason we can lose is that so many of us simply do not fathom the answer to the second question – ‘What does losing mean?’ It would appear that a great many of us think that losing the war means hanging our heads, bringing the troops home and going on about our business, like post Vietnam. This is as far from the truth as one can get.

What losing really means is: We would no longer be the premier country in the world.

The attacks will not subside, but rather will steadily increase. Remember, they want us dead, not just quiet. If they had just wanted us quiet, they would not have produced an increasing series of attacks against us over the past 18 years. The plan was clearly to terrorist attack us until we were neutered and submissive to them.

We would of course have no future support from other nations for fear of reprisals and for the reason that they would see we are impotent and can not help them. They will pick off the other non Muslim nations, one at a time. It will be increasingly easier for them. They already hold Spain hostage. It doesn’t matter whether it was right or wrong for Spain to withdraw its troops from Iraq. Spain did it because the Muslim terrorists bombed their train and told them to withdraw the troops. Anything else they want Spain to do, will be done. Spain is finished.

The next will probably be France. Our one hope on France is that they might see the light and realize that if we don’t win, they are finished too, in that they can’t resist the Muslim terrorists without us. However, it may already be too late for France. France is already 20% Muslim and fading fast. See the attached article on the French.

If we lose the war, our production, income, exports and way of life will all vanish as we know it. After losing, who would trade or deal with us if they were threatened by the Muslims. If we can’t stop the Muslims, how could anyone else? The Muslims fully know what is riding on this war and therefore are completely committed to winning at any cost. We better know it, too, and be likewise committed to winning at any cost.

Why do I go on at such lengths about the results of losing? Simple. Until we recognize the costs of losing, we cannot unite and really put 100% of our thoughts and efforts into winning. And it is going to take that 100% effort to win.

So, how can we lose the war? Again, the answer is simple. We can lose the war by imploding. That is, defeating ourselves by refusing to recognize the enemy and their purpose and really digging in and lending full support to the war effort.

If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. If we continue to be divided, there is no way that we can win.

Let me give you a few examples of how we simply don’t comprehend the life and death seriousness of this situation. President Bush selects Norman Mineta as Secretary of Transportation. Although all of the terrorist attacks were committed by Muslim men between 17 and 40 years of age, Secretary Mineta refuses to allow profiling. Does that sound like we are taking this thing seriously?

This is war. For the duration we are going to have to give up some of the civil rights we have become accustomed to. We had better be prepared to lose some of our civil rights temporarily or we will most certainly lose all of them permanently.

And don’t worry that it is a slippery slope. We gave up plenty of civil rights during WWII and immediately restored them after the victory and in fact added many more since then.

Do I blame President Bush or President Clinton before him? No, I blame us for blithely assuming we can maintain all of our Political Correctness and all of our civil rights during this conflict and have a clean, lawful, honorable war. None of those words apply to war. Get them out of your head.

Some of us have gone so far out in our criticism of the war and/or our Administration that it almost seems they would literally like to see us lose. I hasten to add that this isn’t because they are disloyal. It is because they just don’t recognize what losing means. Nevertheless, that conduct gives the impression to the enemy that we are divided and weakening, it concerns our friends, and it does great damage to our cause.

Of more recent vintage, the uproar fueled by the politicians and media, regarding the treatment of some prisoners of war, perhaps exemplifies best what I am saying. We have recently had an issue involving the treatment of a few Muslim prisoners of war by a small group of our military police. These are the type prisoners who just a few months ago were throwing their own people off buildings, cutting off their hands, cutting out their tongues and otherwise murdering their own people just for disagreeing with Saddam Hussein. And just a few years ago these same type prisoners chemically killed 400,000 of their own people for the same reason. They are also the same type enemy fighters who recently were burning Americans and dragging their charred corpses through the streets of Iraq. And still more recently the same type enemy that was and is providing videos to all news sources internationally, of the beheading of an American prisoner they held.

Compare this with some of our press and politicians who for several days have thought and talked about nothing else but the “humiliating” of some Muslim prisoners – not burning them, not dragging their charred corpses through the streets, not beheading them, but “humiliating” them. Can this be for real? The politicians and pundits have even talked of impeachment of the Secretary of Defense.

If this doesn’t show the complete lack of comprehension and understanding of the seriousness of the enemy we are fighting, the life and death struggle we are in and the disastrous results of losing this war, nothing can. To bring our country to a virtual political standstill over this prisoner issue makes us look like Nero playing his fiddle as Rome burned – totally oblivious to what is going on in the real world. Neither we, nor any other country, can survive this internal strife.

Again I say, this does not mean that some of our politicians or media people are disloyal. It simply means that they are absolutely oblivious to the magnitude of the situation we are in and into which the Muslim terrorists have been pushing us for many years. Remember, the Muslim terrorists stated goal is to kill all infidels. That translates into all non-Muslims – not just in the United States, but throughout the world.

We are the last bastion of defense. We have been criticized for many years as being ‘arrogant’. That charge is valid in at least one respect. We are arrogant in that we believe that we are so good, powerful and smart, that we can win the hearts and minds of all those who attack us, and that with both hands tied behind our back, we can defeat anything bad in the world. We can’t. If we don’t recognize this, our nation as we know it will not survive, and no other free country in the World will survive if we are defeated.

And finally, name any Muslim countries throughout the world that allow freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, freedom of the Press, equal rights for anyone – let alone everyone, equal status or any status for women, or that have been productive in one single way that contributes to the good of the World.

This has been a long way of saying that we must be united on this war or we will be equated in the history books to the self inflicted fall of the Roman Empire. If, that is, the Muslim leaders will allow history books to be written or read. If we don’t win this war right now, keep a close eye on how the Muslims take over France in the next 5 years or less. They will continue to increase the Muslim population of France and continue to encroach little by little on the established French traditions. The French will be fighting among themselves over what should or should not be done, which will continue to weaken them and keep them from any united resolve. Doesn’t that sound eerily familiar?

Democracies don’t have their freedoms taken away from them by some external military force. Instead, they give their freedoms away, politically correct piece by politically correct piece. And they are giving those freedoms away to those who have shown, worldwide, that they abhor freedom and will not apply it to you or even to themselves, once they are in power. They have universally shown that when they have taken over, they then start brutally killing each other over who will be the few who control the masses. Will we ever stop hearing from the politically correct, about the “peaceful Muslims”?

I close on a hopeful note, by repeating what I said above. If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. I believe that after the election, the factions in our country will begin to focus on the critical situation we are in and will unite to save our country. It is your future we are talking about. Do whatever you can to preserve it.

Love, Dad

June 7, 2009 , 2:18PM Posted by | American History, Dhimmitude, Islam, Jihad, Muslims, Operation Iraqi Freedom, Political Correctness, Terrorism, The Long War | Comments Off on “It is Your Future … Do Whatever You Can to Preserve It”